-
When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
BR MA-1 vs. Real McCoy's MA-1 ?
- Thread starter Rutger
- Start date
Which Real McCoy's are we talking about?
I've owned a BR MA-1, and currently have one of the Skyline replicas made by the old RMJ. Both are of similar quality, but the RMJ jacket is heavier, the most solid MA-1 that I have.
RMNZ/The Few are now making the MA-1 again in Japan ... I don't know what the new McCoy's are doing, but there's probably something available through the Good Wear site.
I've owned a BR MA-1, and currently have one of the Skyline replicas made by the old RMJ. Both are of similar quality, but the RMJ jacket is heavier, the most solid MA-1 that I have.
RMNZ/The Few are now making the MA-1 again in Japan ... I don't know what the new McCoy's are doing, but there's probably something available through the Good Wear site.
Rutger
Well-Known Member
asiamiles
Well-Known Member
Looks to be in good condition (is the stencil hidden by the crease?) and the price seems reasonable. If you want one, go for it...if you get it at starting price it will be a good deal.
As for RM vs BR. RM cost more in Japan than Buzz, but does this automatically mean they are better? RM apparently claim Buzz are made in China while RM are made in Japan, which may account for this...but then this price differential has always been the case. And we should remember that RM essentially shut down and restarted at one point, with perhaps just one of the old company still involved? (One went on to form the even more expensive Toys McCoy, I believe). Sellers in Japan sometimes claim Buzz jackets with M model numbers are better quality than those with BR model numbers; wonder if this change represented their switch from Japanese to Chinese manufacturing? I should say though that "Made in Japan" is not necessarily the sign of quality some may perceive it as; there are a lot of incredibly poor quality goods made in Japan. I think it more accurately reflects attention to detail. Of course, all this is just "forum talk" - please don't treat my thinking out loud as gospel.
As for RM vs BR. RM cost more in Japan than Buzz, but does this automatically mean they are better? RM apparently claim Buzz are made in China while RM are made in Japan, which may account for this...but then this price differential has always been the case. And we should remember that RM essentially shut down and restarted at one point, with perhaps just one of the old company still involved? (One went on to form the even more expensive Toys McCoy, I believe). Sellers in Japan sometimes claim Buzz jackets with M model numbers are better quality than those with BR model numbers; wonder if this change represented their switch from Japanese to Chinese manufacturing? I should say though that "Made in Japan" is not necessarily the sign of quality some may perceive it as; there are a lot of incredibly poor quality goods made in Japan. I think it more accurately reflects attention to detail. Of course, all this is just "forum talk" - please don't treat my thinking out loud as gospel.
asiamiles
Well-Known Member
And between the old RM and RMNZ (aka The Few)?deeb7 said:
Interestingly, I was just looking at last years's Buzz catalog and there's a photo of workers making L-2's. Both the people and the building are clearly Japanese. And there's photos of a guy making an A-2 and he looks Japanese too. Should try and get the brief text translated but perhaps the "Made in China" story is not so accurate after all?
just to muddy the waters further, all my Buzz stuff is labeled made in Japan (sweats, chinos, scarf etc etc) I too am totally confused about the Real Mccoys history and who is who... (Real Mccoys/Toys Mccoy/Joe Mccoy are all the same? RMNZ/The Few are separate? but all used to be the same?) 
just a little note to add: certainly for stuff like the pea coats, sweatshirts, workwear and other bits and bobs Real Mccoys have always been thought to have a slight edge over Buzz... i don't know if this is because they are more expensive... i'm sure that has something to do with it. It may also be an exclusivity thing, Real Mccoys stuff has always been harder to get hold of outside Japan than Buzz stuff... personally i think the actual differences will be slight, both seem pretty fastidious when it comes to the details... in my experience Buzz sweats are nicer than Real Mccoys ones, though the Mccoys are more expensive.
just a little note to add: certainly for stuff like the pea coats, sweatshirts, workwear and other bits and bobs Real Mccoys have always been thought to have a slight edge over Buzz... i don't know if this is because they are more expensive... i'm sure that has something to do with it. It may also be an exclusivity thing, Real Mccoys stuff has always been harder to get hold of outside Japan than Buzz stuff... personally i think the actual differences will be slight, both seem pretty fastidious when it comes to the details... in my experience Buzz sweats are nicer than Real Mccoys ones, though the Mccoys are more expensive.
deeb7 said:omarco said:
Yes, it is confusing ...
Real Mccoys/Toys Mccoy/Joe Mccoy are all the same?
No, Real McCoy's are not connected to Toys etc.
RMNZ/The Few are separate? but all used to be the same?
No, they were never the same.
now i really am confused! i would have sworn The Real Mccoy was the same as Toys, Joe etc
omarco said:
Okay ... RMJ closed some years ago, eventually a new company appeared with the same name. The new RMJ has no connection to the old RMJ, and no connection to any other repro maker.
After the emergence of the new RMJ, RMNZ rebranded as The Few in Japan to avoid confusion.
asiamiles
Well-Known Member
omarco said:just to muddy the waters further, all my Buzz stuff is labeled made in Japan (sweats, chinos, scarf etc etc) I too am totally confused about the Real Mccoys history and who is who... (Real Mccoys/Toys Mccoy/Joe Mccoy are all the same? RMNZ/The Few are separate? but all used to be the same?)
just a little note to add: certainly for stuff like the pea coats, sweatshirts, workwear and other bits and bobs Real Mccoys have always been thought to have a slight edge over Buzz... i don't know if this is because they are more expensive... i'm sure that has something to do with it. It may also be an exclusivity thing, Real Mccoys stuff has always been harder to get hold of outside Japan than Buzz stuff... personally i think the actual differences will be slight, both seem pretty fastidious when it comes to the details... in my experience Buzz sweats are nicer than Real Mccoys ones, though the Mccoys are more expensive.
Joe McCoy is a label used by The Real McCoy's for work wear and other civi clothing. TRM are actually harder to find in Japan as well...possibly due to the price, less outlets are willing to stock them, though unlike Buzz they have their own store, as do Toys McCoy who are even more exclusive and even more expensive! And McHill is a label used by Toys McCoy.
The only Toyo (Buzz) items I know for sure are made in China are the 'sukejan' which are cleared labelled as such. The notion of any of their other clothing being made in China came from a comment apparently made by the owner of The Real McCoy's to John Chapman.
Joe McCoy is a label used by The Real McCoy's for work wear and other civi clothing. TRM are actually harder to find in Japan as well...possibly due to the price, less outlets are willing to stock them, though unlike Buzz they have their own store, as do Toys McCoy who are even more exclusive and even more expensive! And McHill is a label used by Toys McCoy.
MASH informed me that the Junky shops in Japan are all subsidiaries of Toyo Enterprises, hence you don't see other manufacturer's goods in these shops.
The notion of any of their other clothing being made in China came from a comment apparently made by the owner of The Real McCoy's to John Chapman.[/quote]
The owner of TRM dishing on Buzz: Not exactly an objective source of intel. on their #1 competitor.
Saunders
MASH informed me that the Junky shops in Japan are all subsidiaries of Toyo Enterprises, hence you don't see other manufacturer's goods in these shops.
The notion of any of their other clothing being made in China came from a comment apparently made by the owner of The Real McCoy's to John Chapman.[/quote]
The owner of TRM dishing on Buzz: Not exactly an objective source of intel. on their #1 competitor.
Saunders
its all massively confusing, good thing that pretty much all of them are a safe bet (budget allowing).
Love the MASH shop too.
id love to see more of the leathers around this place, while perhaps not as stitch perfect as other makers, they look great to me, using colours, different hides and knits etc.... its a shame they're so f'in expensive
Love the MASH shop too.
id love to see more of the leathers around this place, while perhaps not as stitch perfect as other makers, they look great to me, using colours, different hides and knits etc.... its a shame they're so f'in expensive
A
Anonymous
Guest
Rutger:
I've had an example of both recently. I had a Buzz Rickson XL Lion Uniform and a chance to wear a Real MCoys 1964 MA-1. The Buzz has a more realistic shape and fit than the Real MCoys which seemed to be cut in the "skinny" style the Japanese love so much lately. That being said- the Buzz has much thinner nylon and the same problen with the sleeves they've always had- the sleeve ends appear too large because of some fault of construction- they measure out the same as an Alpha for instance but the nylon and lining are sandwiched together so when worn the sleeve looks like a big ugly tube- the originals were put together differently somehow. The Real MCoys MA-1 has a much more pleasant appearance sleevewise but the body on the jacket was too long by 2 or 3 inches- when worn it didn't look like an original (of which I have 3 good examples) at all. I have a feeling that older Real MCoys may have a more accurate pattern. The nylon on the real MCoys jacket was exactly the same in color and thickness as original Alphas- it is thick luxurious nylon. The Buzz had thinner nylon of a greener hue- but I don't know enough to say if this is realistic or not. Both jackets are sewn with amazing tight stitching- I'd say in that respect they are both top notch. Overall- if I were a re-enactor or something I'd get the Buzz because of the more realistic fit- if I were a young fashionista I'd get the real MCoys. Hope this helps...
I've had an example of both recently. I had a Buzz Rickson XL Lion Uniform and a chance to wear a Real MCoys 1964 MA-1. The Buzz has a more realistic shape and fit than the Real MCoys which seemed to be cut in the "skinny" style the Japanese love so much lately. That being said- the Buzz has much thinner nylon and the same problen with the sleeves they've always had- the sleeve ends appear too large because of some fault of construction- they measure out the same as an Alpha for instance but the nylon and lining are sandwiched together so when worn the sleeve looks like a big ugly tube- the originals were put together differently somehow. The Real MCoys MA-1 has a much more pleasant appearance sleevewise but the body on the jacket was too long by 2 or 3 inches- when worn it didn't look like an original (of which I have 3 good examples) at all. I have a feeling that older Real MCoys may have a more accurate pattern. The nylon on the real MCoys jacket was exactly the same in color and thickness as original Alphas- it is thick luxurious nylon. The Buzz had thinner nylon of a greener hue- but I don't know enough to say if this is realistic or not. Both jackets are sewn with amazing tight stitching- I'd say in that respect they are both top notch. Overall- if I were a re-enactor or something I'd get the Buzz because of the more realistic fit- if I were a young fashionista I'd get the real MCoys. Hope this helps...
Rutger
Well-Known Member
Received the RMC MA-1 today.
It turns out to be a Skyline Clothing Corporation repro, which is a bonus to me.
Compared with BR:
RMC Large is equal to BR XL, sleeves are even a bit longer than the BR XL, shoulders a bit wider. Considerable tunneling, need to wear it for some time to find out if it bothers me too much.
RMC tightens a bit more towards the waist, my BR XL is a tad easier to zip up.
Upper point/corner of windflap has an about 6 mm radius at the BR, whereas at the RMC is really pointy. Maybe a contract difference though.
RMC doesn't have the two ink tubes in the pen pocket that BR always has.
Quality appears the same, almost as if the nylon came from the same weaving machines as from BR. Ditto for the colour, which is sage and not the olive/green from the photos.
I've got the tools to measure the exact thickness of the cloth, but haven't had the time yet to do so.
Tight knits, heavy filling.
Crown zip (if I remembered well) which appears to be exactly the same as the Scovill on the BR Buzz Rickson MA-1 (haven't compared with the Lion Uniform).
US Air Force logo was on the arm, but has been washed away, just a shadow remaining.
I stumbled upon this one at Rakuten, BR are modest with their UV-treatment. This one must have been at Tsjernobil.
http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/klax ... m/tmj0021/
It turns out to be a Skyline Clothing Corporation repro, which is a bonus to me.
Compared with BR:
RMC Large is equal to BR XL, sleeves are even a bit longer than the BR XL, shoulders a bit wider. Considerable tunneling, need to wear it for some time to find out if it bothers me too much.
RMC tightens a bit more towards the waist, my BR XL is a tad easier to zip up.
Upper point/corner of windflap has an about 6 mm radius at the BR, whereas at the RMC is really pointy. Maybe a contract difference though.
RMC doesn't have the two ink tubes in the pen pocket that BR always has.
Quality appears the same, almost as if the nylon came from the same weaving machines as from BR. Ditto for the colour, which is sage and not the olive/green from the photos.
I've got the tools to measure the exact thickness of the cloth, but haven't had the time yet to do so.
Tight knits, heavy filling.
Crown zip (if I remembered well) which appears to be exactly the same as the Scovill on the BR Buzz Rickson MA-1 (haven't compared with the Lion Uniform).
US Air Force logo was on the arm, but has been washed away, just a shadow remaining.
I stumbled upon this one at Rakuten, BR are modest with their UV-treatment. This one must have been at Tsjernobil.
http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/klax ... m/tmj0021/
