Aero Type A-2 fit questions

[jpholla10]

I was wondering if I could get some fit opinions on this Aero Type A-2 in Russet HH? It's a 40 and I feel it's too tight across the chest and too short in the arm and body length. It's definitely trim-cut and feels okay (but far from great) and I'm not sure it recreates the period-fit that I so desire. I know WWII fits were all over the place but this A-2 just looks too tight on me. Opinions would be much appreciated.

With a Bill's Poplin shirt on:

With only a T-shirt on:

 

[Jeff M]

Some time back I ordered an A2 from Aero.
Went over my measurements with them. Had ordered "civilian" jackets from them before...and they had done a great job fitting those jackets.

Your A2 looks like it fits the same as mine did.
Too short in the body and arms, too tight.

I have subsequently talked with other folks familiar with the way Aero makes their A2's. Seems like this is a fairly common fit for their A2's.
It may be a "vintage fir"...but if you don't ever wear it because of how uncomfortable it is, what benefit is there to being "vintage"?
I tend to think of this design not as a "vintage fit", but rather as "vintage sizing", ie "we use the same measurements they did back in WW2...when these jackets were shipping out to young, fit, undernourished GI's".

See this current discusion re; "reproduction A2 fits":

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13959

I returned it, they made me another one with new dimensions, adding to the chest size and lengths.
Much better fit...though still a bit snugger than I prefer.
FWIW, it IS possible to get a comfortable fit high quality "vintage" A2 repro if you go with the right manufacturer. For me, that hasn't been Aero.

 

[jpholla10]

Jeff M,

I really appreciate your opinions and insight. It was a special offer from Aero where the price was too good to pass up although I had my misgivings about being a 40. I'm between a 40 and 42 in my suits and I was hoping I could make this jacket work. Denying it isn't going to make the jacket fit better. In these "vintage" measurements, a 40 inch chest is still a 40 but everything else could be as tight as a snare drum. Much appreciated.

I may sell and then save up for a stich-for-stich repro of my Grandfather's type A-2 in the picture below (Grandpa's second from the right with a .45 strapped to his hip). Once I ID which maker his A-2 was I'll probably pull the trigger on one that fits perfectly. Hopefully that will end my flight jacket obsession (though I doubt it). Thanks again.

 

[Jeff M]

It can be an obsession, can't it?
FWIW, if you aren't familiar with the various A2 repro manufacturers, Goodwear Leather is very highly thought of by many, and my favorite;

http://www.goodwearleather.com/pages/index.html

Custom made to your measurements.
Top notch material and construction.
Excellent reproductions of many contracts.
John Chapman (Goodwear's owner/the jacket maker) is a pleasure to deal with.
You have to be patient....about a year from time of order is my current experience.
Price equivalent to other "high end" repro manufacturers with the huge plus of the jacket being custom fit to your measurements rather than "off the rack".

 

[Hamsterbear]

That jacket looks to be at least one size too small, maybe two..looks like you are about to "bust" the zipper, and if you raise your arms the knit cuffs will be 1/2 way up your forearms..
You have to learn the "sizing" of the different makers...
For example, I wear a 42R in Eastman, but in Aero Leather of Scotland I need a 44R, and you have to expect the body length to be a tad on the short side...I have a "real deal" A-2 from them in a 44R that is a very nice jacket-the best A-2 I've seen from them so far.
Others, like Gibson & Barnes tend to vary greatly over the years. When they were Flight Suits, the ran a bit smaller or more true to "tag" size, the very first G&B fit me great, and the current fit seems HUGE, and I suggest people go down one size from what they normally wear.
I no longer wear my A-2's anymore, instead I have an Aero Highwayman which is the beat leather jacket I've ever owned, and I have the airline pilot type jacket from G&B a "Skyliner Airline Jacket" in black goatskin, and it is a comfy loose fit, side entry,wallet pocket, removable liner.....yeah, a MALL JACKET!!!!
BTW- if the difference between just a t-shirt and a dress shirt/tie makes you feel like a stuffed turkey,
it's too small!!!!! Ignor the "tag", go for fit.

 

[colekwok]

Actually, to me, it looks absolutely fine. Maybe the sleeve is slightly short.

Ask around and you will receive plenty of different opinions about the fits.

 

[unclegrumpy]

If you want a jacket that fits like the jacket your Grandfather is wearing, you are probably looking at a wartime sized 44 A-2. There is some variation in fit between original jacket maker contracts, but what you have is way too small....by at least one size.

In my experience, new A-2s get a bit smaller when you wear them rather than bigger....they do sometimes give a bit in the chest, arm holes, and shoulders, but that is counterbalanced by the slight upward creep in the front of the body and the greater creep upward in the sleeves.

As far as getting a stitch for stitch copy of your Grandfather's jacket, that can be done, just get on the Goodwear waiting list.

My eyes are not sharp enough to ID your Grandfather's jacket for sure, but someone here can down to the exact contract. Just so the big boys will have something fun to shoot at....meaning me, I am going to toss out a mid brown russet horsehide Roughwear as starting point.

 

[Rutger]

Looks a bit too small/short to me.
My intuitive response: go up one size as far as chest size and body length is concerned.
As time goes by the sleeves will shorten, so they'll have to go up at least one size, from what I see they could do well with another 3/4 of an inch. If you're able to exchange the jacket with Aero, it might be good to write down all main dimensions of this jacket.
Nice jacket though, and you seem to have the right body type for wearing an A2 zipped up.

 

[Roughwear]

I would agree that this Aero is at least one size too small for you. I also have a 40 inch chest and usually wear size 44s in originals and 44 in GW repros.

Your grandfather's A2 looks very much like a Roughwear as it has rounded pocket bottoms, a typical RW collar and the familiar slight kink in the epaulets. John Chapman will make you a really decent copy.

 

[derleicaman]

I would agree that the Aero in your picture is one size too small for you. The sleeves look about right IMO. It looks too tight in the chest/shoulders. And of course, it is a bit short. This was my main irritation with the Aero A-2 I had. They seem to like to make a shorter jacket. I like my A-2s to cover my belt. This is also more of a problem with modern slacks and jeans which ride much lower than in WW2 days. I have been most pleased with Good Wear, even with buying test and used jackets from him. John is a gem, great to work with. He will nail whatever contract you go for as he is obsessed with accuracy and details. I believe he will still send you a jacket to try on for sizing. The only downside is the wait.

 

[unclegrumpy]

I would agree that this Aero is at least one size too small for you. I also have a 40 inch chest and usually wear size 44s in originals and 44 in GW repros.

Your grandfather's A2 looks very much like a Roughwear as it has rounded pocket bottoms, a typical RW collar and the familiar slight kink in the epaulets. John Chapman will make you a really decent copy.

God has spoken! Get your name on the GW waiting list....you'll have about a year to save up for it.

 

[jpholla10]

You guys are great. Thank you very much for the advice and the Type A-2 jacket identification. As a small token of appreciation, I'll post a few pics, since we all love looking at pics. First two are my grandfather and his plane, "Pistol Packin' Mamma" (note the 2 M's in "Mamma") which was in the 15th AF, 47th Bomb Wing, 449th BG, 718th Sqd. Downed by fighters over Brasov Rumania, 4/16/44. The final picture is me in my original B-3.

Thanks again, fellas. I really enjoy this forum.

 

[Jeff M]

Thanks for the photos.
Here you go, just to whet your whistle;

http://www.goodwearleather.com/pages/gw ... ages4.html

 

[jpholla10]

Those GWs are absolutely stunning. I just don't think I'm there yet. I need to do more research and try different fits before I can even approach GW to have a custom job made. Does one not pay up front for the work? Would I truly be able to place an order and save for a year? I like the idea of interest free credit but enerally I don't buy anything I can't pay for up front. Thanks for the link...just beautiful.

 

[Jeff M]

Those GWs are absolutely stunning. I just don't think I'm there yet. I need to do more research and try different fits before I can even approach GW to have a custom job made. Does one not pay up front for the work? Would I truly be able to place an order and save for a year? I like the idea of interest free credit but enerally I don't buy anything I can't pay for up front. Thanks for the link...just beautiful.

$200.00 downpayment at time your order is placed.
Final amount due at time of delivery.
If looking to accurately reproduce the contract your grandfather wore, can't do better than GW

They are pricier than Aero's, but worth it to due to better fit and leather quality. (And I'm a big fan of Aero's civilian design leather jackets.)

Same price range as Eastman Leather...but with the advantage of being custom made to your measurements.
http://www.eastmanleather.com/index.php?cPath=21_41
Plus, I prefer the leathers GW uses to the leather on my Eastman A2's.

Cheaper than The Real McCoy's;
http://www.realmccoys.co.nz/cat01.html
And again with the advantage of being custom made to fit.

Significantly cheaper than "The Few";
http://www.thefewmfg.com/data_list.cgi? ... GHT_JACKET
Again, with the advantage of being custom made.

 

[unclegrumpy]

I hate to tell you this, but you are there already!

You don't have to pay for the whole thing at once....just a deposit. John will work with you both for paying for it, and getting your jacket 100% right. He often has jackets that you can borrow and try on as a dry run to hone in on your exact measurements.

Since you are working to duplicate your Grandfather's jacket, you are farther along in the decision process than you really know, because most guys suffer over which contact they want to pick. Plus, since your Grandfather's jacket is likely a Roughwear, you are lucky because that is a contract that is one of the most forgiving as far as fit. It is also one of the biggest makers and a pattern that many consider to be the classic WW II A-2.

Many of us have been farting around with these jackets for many, many years. Since you know exactly where you want to go with your mission, skip the all additional suffering and disappointments.

I know it is a lot of money, but you need to trust us. Get your name on the damn list....you will not regret it.

 

[unclegrumpy]

Question: Which of these guys is your Grandfather?

Rogers, Dale E. - Pilot POW
Madorin, Frederick L. - Co-Pilot POW
Kinne, Warren H. - Navigator POW
Hoggatt, Robert A. - Bombardier POW

 

[ciddu]

You guys are great. Thank you very much for the advice and the Type A-2 jacket identification. As a small token of appreciation, I'll post a few pics, since we all love looking at pics. First two are my grandfather and his plane, "Pistol Packin' Mamma" (note the 2 M's in "Mamma") which was in the 15th AF, 47th Bomb Wing, 449th BG, 718th Sqd.

Nothing strange about the 2 M's in "Mamma": "MAMMA" is actually italian for "mother", and the 449th BG was stationed in Grottaglia, in southern Italy with the 15th AF. Maybe the artirst took from the local language... or maybe a local painter did the job, with his "interpretation" of the english name.

 

[jpholla10]

2nd Lt. Robert (Bob) Hoggatt is my grandfather. Dale Rogers (Pilot) was my grandpa's best friend. "Hellen" (on the nose of aircraft) is my grandmother and "Jean" was Rogers's wife. They were POWs in "Rumania" (what we would call Romania) and apparently they got into some Hogan's Heroes-type antics.

 

[FlyingYankee]

Remember It's a flying Jacket. Your Jacket fits fine. You have to be willing to suffer a bit to break them in. Short body means will not ride up in the cockpit. Tight so no loose leather will catch on any flight controls inadvertently. Sleeves should ride up in the pilots seat so you have free use of yur hands. See it all makes sense. A looser jacket will not look as nice either. problem is people are used to modern baggy clothing.