AAF shoulder decals

[handworn]

I was just talking with John about my Dubow 20960, soon to arrive, and about the AAF shoulder decal I was interested in getting. What he said was that they were a late-war thing-- required to be applied after August 1944, I think he said-- and were only applied to A-2s that went through the depot refurbishing.

So I went through all the pictures I could find of A-2s being worn during the war, and I think he may be right. There were very few that showed the left shoulder, it's true, and not too many with specific dates, but just about none of those that I did find had a shoulder decal. Any thoughts on this?

 

[deeb7]

... Any thoughts on this?

Just what John said ... so it only really looks correct if the jacket is seal.

 

[CBI]

A depot refurbish might not mean an overspray is some cases. The GW Werber I just purchased that arrived today has the decal. I assumed that I would remove it (which is easy to do) but I have to say that it looks pretty cool. I guess part of me likes it because I do lots of jacket/patch painting but this was something that I didn't do (read "easy" for me). There is also a namestrip on it (currently J. Chapman). I really like these two items on the jacket as they add just a hint of vintage AAF (vs. all out jacket art of nothing at all).

If you think you are wanting the decal, I would say go ahead. The beauty of it is if you don't like it, you can remove it with water. Yes, you would be out $25 but what the heck!

 

[Dr H]

An interesting observation - presumably that would that also apply to a painted roundel on the left sleeve as well? Of course, it's logical that the jacket sported it after spraying, but the dating is interesting.

My Perry has been through a depot refurbishment with seal overspray and there are vestiges of paint on the upper left sleeve corresponding to a roundel of some kind, but there is very little paint adhering to the skin now, just a few flakes - I imagine that the dye used for the seal colour (which is pretty dark) was not really that compatible with the - lead based? - paint. Does this enable me to date the refurbishment to post 1944?

I've been contemplating reinstating an insignia of some kind (incised leather, paint or decal and I've been following this up with Ties), but can't decide which medium or design would be best suited to it.

The two sticking points for me are which insignia is 'correct' - I have no particular knowledge of the insignia used (I see a variety of stars with different forms of feathered wings, some more stylised than others). Could somebody with more knowledge in this area direct me to a suitable design from 1944 please?

Secondly, whatever the medium (leather, paint, decal) I'm really averse to a brand new/highly coloured insignia as the jacket is beautifully patinated and looks it age and this would stand out like a sort thumb.

Does anybody have any advice (or threads/links) for ageing the paint/leather/decal please? I have access to plenty of organic solvents and have experience in distressing/ageing antique furniture, but any advice gratefully received./

Thanks

Ian

 

[wop54]

If I got it right, McQueen's A2 in the Great Escape was historically uncorrect. It took place since early 1943 in the Stalag Luft III. Could that A2 have a decal?

 

[TankBuster]

... Any thoughts on this?

Just what John said ... so it only really looks correct if the jacket is seal.

I agree with John, but not with the seal comment. Many jackets that went through the depot were resprayed, but there were many that weren't. If the jacket just needed some lining work, or a new zipper, ect, it would not have been oversprayed.

I have a real nice original russet Poughkeepsie that has the decal. The only reason it went to the depot was to be reissued since the previous owner was taken POW in August of 1944. Johns time frame adds up nicely since he was taken POW in August of '44, and the jacket was more than likely reissued in September of 1944 with the decal in place.

 

[bombs away]

Hello guys,

I'm not able to answer the question, but I thought this picture might help.
Look at the front row, first and second men from the left.
The picture is from august 29th 1944. No other information about this crew unfortunately.

Tim.

 

[bombs away]

Close up :

Hope it helps !

Tim

 

[CBI]

In regards a new decal on an old jacket. One can create wear in an instant by scrunching it up in one'd hands - these things do crack easily - One can pick a little of it off or add some acrylic wash over it to give age. I think Chapman use's Mash decals????

 

[handworn]

The really interesting thing about this closeup is that it reveals that the decals on their shoulders were not the filled-in, color examples, but the outline logo that you see stamped on a lot of the late-war cloth clothing, something I've never seen on the shoulder of an A-2. Even with a B&W photo, a blue background should look different from the jacket leather itself, and it doesn't.

Close up :

Hope it helps !

Tim

 

[stubbyeighth]

Supposedly, the white-outline winged-star decals were the earliest.


Buzz Rickson did one a few years back: I forget what contract:





For what it's worth, someone on this forum (or a previous incarnation of it) looked into this topic quite a lot and said that the only photo's of combat crews with the color winged-star he found were in the Pacific. Certainly, not conclusive, and Maguire's books show a few A-2's with shoulder decals, but I think winged stars were rare-birds in the the ETO.
__________________________

stubbyeighth

 

[Dr H]

Thanks for that info. - it's very frustrating but I've examined my left sleeve very carefully indeed and I can see evidence of a couple of white flakes (corresponding to the legend under the roundel), several white flakes corresponding to the star and one yellow flake for a tiny portion of wing, but no more than that.

I took a look at the MASH website and this looks like it has something suitable.

This is what I'd aim for it to resemble http://www.acmedepot.com/a2jacket/a2ima ... _decal.jpg (i.e. after an umber wash and plenty of flexing!) .

Thanks for your comments guys...

 

[CBI]

those outlined shoulder versions I have rarely seen on A-2's mostly B-3's. Both these and the decals are pretty cool. Patched and hand painted are other options,

 

[Peter Graham]

I've been contemplating reinstating an insignia of some kind (incised leather, paint or decal and I've been following this up with Ties), but can't decide which medium or design would be best suited to it.

Ian, this is purely personal opinion but I would not mess with an original jacket. Applying paint or a stitched on decal will certainly de-value the jacket and ruin its originality. I would go for a removable decal if you want to apply anything. It's the most authentic anyway. As I said, just my opinion.

 

[Roughwear]

Peter is right IMO, Ian. It is perhaps best to leave the jacket as it is. By adding a modern decal purist collectors would feel you would have compromised the authenticity of the jacket.

 

[CBI]

Oh, I did not realise some were talking about putting on an original - in THAT case - NOTHING

 

[TankBuster]

Oh, I did not realise some were talking about putting on an original - in THAT case - NOTHING

Same here....and agreed

 

[Dr H]

Thanks for your advice everybody. I'll go with the latter and leave it as it is.

Ian