A possible civilian version of an ANJ-3 ??

[B-Man2]

I’m just guessing on this one but, is this a civilian version of the Abercrombie and Fitch ANJ-3 ??
I’m very interested in hearing others thoughts on this jacket .

Vintage Abercrombie and Fitch Leather Pilot’s Bomber Jacket. Size 40. Talon. | eBay

<p>Vintage Abercrombie and Fitch Leather Pilot’s Bomber Jacket. Size 40.. </p><br /><p>Very good condition, some pilling on inner lower band, small blemish on back, see close ups. </p>

www.ebay.com

 

[mulceber]

Probably a jacket by a Navy contractor that they sold to Abercrombie & Fitch. Interesting that it doesn't appear to have a windflap.

 

[Chandler]

Size 40.

Interesting zip puller.

 

[Erwin]

Hey B-Man2 and Mulceber,

It looks like a G1-type from the '70s. Jackets like this one [with heavy-duty polymer Talon zipper] made by Abercrombie and Fitch are relatively easy to find at better prices. If I can ask you B-Man2, what details on this jacket can indicate that it can be ANJ-3?

 

[mulceber]

Hey B-Man2 and Mulceber,

It looks like a G1-type from the '70s. Jackets like this one [with heavy-duty polymer Talon zipper] made by Abercrombie and Fitch are relatively easy to find at better prices. If I can ask you B-Man2, what details on this jacket can indicate that it can be ANJ-3?

I think Burt remembered me mentioning that Abercrombie & Fitch bought some of the AN-J-3s and that was the connection.

I could be wrong, but a lot of the details on that jacket look earlier than the '70s to me. The zipper appears to be metal (you can see metal where some of the coating has worn away, and the label looks like some I've seen from the late '40s or so.

 

[Erwin]

I think Burt remembered me mentioning that Abercrombie & Fitch bought some of the AN-J-3s and that was the connection.

Thanks, this makes sense, zipper slider like this one is zinc and coated, but the main zipper is a polymer. Also, as far as I'm aware knits like these [bi-brown tone] can be found on Abercrombie and Fitch G1 from the '70s. Good to ask the seller for more pictures, for more detailed pictures.

In fact an interesting jacket.

 

[B-Man2]

Hey B-Man2 and Mulceber,

It looks like a G1-type from the '70s. Jackets like this one [with heavy-duty polymer Talon zipper] made by Abercrombie and Fitch are relatively easy to find at better prices. If I can ask you B-Man2, what details on this jacket can indicate that it can be ANJ-3?

Hi Erwin
I honestly didn’t know what I had found . I thought it might be a civilian version of either a USN M-422 or M422A with those pointed collar tips , and the goatskin looked very much like the thin chocolate brown goat skin of that era. But as Mulceber mentioned I remember discussions we had concerning A&F having sold versions of the ANJ-3 and wondered if this could be one of them. I figured if I posted it , eventually we’d get if nailed down .

 

[Chandler]

First off, the leather looks different than anything I ever remember seeing (or owning) from the 70s -- something about the finish.

Next, I think the tag can give us some clues to vintage, "Dry clean only... do not use coin operated method of dry cleaning" anyone remember "coin op dry cleaning?" I think that was long gone by the 70s.

 

[Erwin]

It is really interesting, maybe some forum users own G1 made by Abercrombie and Fitch like this one and are capable to share more details or information. These civilian-made G1 can be interesting, especially when patterns and leather are very similar to genuine pieces.

Chandler, it is also interesting in relation to information from the label [looks like it is US-made], sadly I cannot comment on mentioned via the label information. Based on a quick research regarding "Dry clean only, do not use petroleum solvents or the coin-operated method of dry cleaning", I found this:

"There are several newspaper articles from early 1972 discussing the then-new care labelling requirements. In July 1972, care labelling became mandatory for new garments in the USA. In the guidance given to manufacturers from the Federal Trade Commission, this exact text was given as an example of an acceptable label.

This doesn't mean that such labels were only used in 1972 - and certainly, they are later examples, into the 1980s. But it does mean that a number of labels with this wording would have been made up in 1972, to meet the new 1972 labelling requirements. Also probably not many such labels were made after 1972, as the guidelines had changed. As with other labels, manufacturers probably had stocks of them that they used up after the guidelines changed."

Abercrombie & Fitch labels from the 60's or older usually have added cities. In the '70s and 80's not [like on this jacket]. Examples of AF labels from the '60s and '70s, LL Bean from the '70s, and something, not from the US made from 1981. Just regarding information from the label. I still would like to see valid information that this jacket is not from 70's.

 

[Chandler]

Those labels approved in 1972 are completely different from the labels in those vintage jackets -- they're closer to the washing instructions you see in clothing today.

I'd like to see some valid information of just when this jacket was actually made, whatever era.

 

[B-Man2]

I’m not sure if this is a factor when determining the year of production of this jacket but the two tone knits seems to be something that was popular in the 1940s time frame. Having said that the zipper puller looks like something a little more modern than the 1940s era.

 

[Chandler]

Having said that the zipper puller looks like something a little more modern than the 1940s era.

None of our zip experts want to chime in? Surprised.

I did a Google image search of that zip pull and nothing similar came up.

The finish is very interesting.

 

[B-Man2]

None of our zip experts want to chime in? Surprised.

I did a Google image search of that zip pull and nothing similar came up.

The finish is very interesting.

The zip pull is almost as interesting and puzzling as the jacket.

 

[Erwin]

Hey folks,

The zipper is Talon from the '70s you don't need to be an expert to know it. Here on AF jacket and close up [just as a reference to characteristic zipper-pull]. Sliders like this one can be found on zinc or polymer zippers as well, some with coated teeth [usually late 70s and the early 80s]. Let me know when this type of Talon slider is older.

 

[Skyhawk]

This is not a 1940's jacket. The zipper is plastic and the label is not right

 

[Chandler]

The zipper is Talon from the '70s you don't need to be an expert to know it.

Not to be a smartass (but I have a lot of practice), so how do you know?

Reference?

 

[Chandler]

This is not a 1940's jacket. The zipper is plastic and the label is not right

Maybe not '40s, but how about 50s or 60s?

How can you I.D. plastic from the picture? Serious question -- not being that smartass.

I have a Schott jacket from 1977 that had a nickel zip -- replaced with another nickel zip. Only plastic zip I ever had was on a late 90s M-65.

 

[Chandler]

The whole point of the debate over this jacket is that everything is speculation with no real evidence of its provenance.

I have a Schott leather jacket from 1977 that has labels with no mention of coin-op dry cleaning on its instruction tag.

I also have a 1975 (+/-) L.L. Bean anorak that does have instructions to avoid said coin-op dry cleaning, but the tags look nothing like what's been presented in this thread (I'll try to snap some pics to show).

To me, all of the labels shown above have a look to them that is older than the 70s -- when I bought and wore a lot of clothes.

 

[Skyhawk]

Maybe not '40s, but how about 50s or 60s?

How can you I.D. plastic from the picture? Serious question -- not being that smartass.

I have a Schott jacket from 1977 that had a nickel zip -- replaced with another nickel zip. Only plastic zip I ever had was on a late 90s M-65.

Looks like plastic.

Mouton collar does not have the proper construction

Knits appear to not be 100% wool.

 

[Chandler]

View attachment 104297
Mouton collar does not have the proper construction

What's your point here? Proper construction for..? A civilian jacket?

And still unclear to identifying a plastic zip through an internet image. And do you know when Talon was making plastic zips? After they were bought out?