dujardin
Well-Known Member
don't know if it's an original - ww2 era or a repro; but he's very coollllllllllllll
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-U-S-A- ... 27c237096c
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-U-S-A- ... 27c237096c
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507th PIR leather
- Thread starter dujardin
- Start date
A
Anonymous
Guest
CBI could make look just like that.
shedonwanna
Active Member
dujardin said:yes, a good artist can reproduce easily
the back looks too "fresh" to me, but i can't (won't) say it's just a copy...
even an average artist can reproduce
Incised and aged reproduction
tooled and stained reproduction
This loser can get sorta close on a first try! Add some honest wear and ........
I would never buy such a patch without provenance. Obviously there are plenty of desperate collectors who would! I read that 99% of SS helmets are fake and I wouldn't doubt it. At shows I've seen some that looks so good too. 99% chance they were faked. Funny, they all ask a high price.
Look at how many WWII ABN helmets are suddenly on the market.
Had an interest in both but went with AAF collecting. Now that too is being faked pretty well.
Dave
I would never buy such a patch without provenance. Obviously there are plenty of desperate collectors who would! I read that 99% of SS helmets are fake and I wouldn't doubt it. At shows I've seen some that looks so good too. 99% chance they were faked. Funny, they all ask a high price.
Look at how many WWII ABN helmets are suddenly on the market.
Had an interest in both but went with AAF collecting. Now that too is being faked pretty well.
Dave
a2jacketpatches
Active Member
The 502nd PIR had a 4.5 decal leather patch with the same type of wear and tear but there is only one rock solid example that I have seen. The leather on this looks good and the decal as well. If this was at an estate sale with other military items I would spend good money in a heartbeat. However, just as any artist can paint these simple designs, anyone with a computer could make a decal with t-shirt transfer paper, but it would stretch rater than split and peel the way this one does. Also, waterslide decals are available (custom made) and would wear the same way. The question is, did they make these for the 507th? I just checked the us militaria forum to find nothing on this patch, that's a good sign . It would either be praised or scrutinized like crazy, or not mentioned at all by anyone in order to keep interest at a minimum. All this said, I think it's good.
I'd say the double row of stitching is a good sign too but, still, with zero provenance my pocket would be set at "good deal".
Did Patch King or any other of the 50's places commission some of these? There are a scary number of things reproduced just after the war that for some reason now hold a place of honor as irrefutably authentic.
So these were decals on leather?
Did Patch King or any other of the 50's places commission some of these? There are a scary number of things reproduced just after the war that for some reason now hold a place of honor as irrefutably authentic.
So these were decals on leather?
a2jacketpatches
Active Member
Most certainly the 502nd, as far as decals go, but extremely rare and for officers leather jackets,
a2jacketpatches
Active Member
"Did Patch King or any other of the 50's places commission some of these? There are a scary number of things reproduced just after the war that for some reason now hold a place of honor as irrefutably authentic"
Not Patch King, or reproduction. If not real, a very well thought out and executed fake.
Not Patch King, or reproduction. If not real, a very well thought out and executed fake.
EMBLEMHUNTER
Well-Known Member
I think this unit's actual patches were done in cloth form, could be wrong, but this is their "emblem" , it does look really good if it is a "fake"
Johnny
Johnny
a2jacketpatches
Active Member
I'm thinking embroidered on twill - English made, and fully embroidered - U.S. made, but not completely sure of that. This one, if real, would be of very limited quantity specifically for an A2 or other leather jacket. Only an officer would be issued one of these patches. All others PIR unit pocket patches would have been fully embroidered or embroidered on twill/cloth for use on the cloth jump jacket.
EMBLEMHUNTER
Well-Known Member
a2jacketpatches said:
I agree about if this patch is "genuine" that it most likely was for an "Officer's" leather jacket , and not a lot of those were made , so it would be a rather "rare" piece, too bad they just couldn't get more "Possitive" proof of it's background !
Johnny
a2jacketpatches
Active Member
Yes, officers were the only paratroopers issued and authorized to wear A2's, and decal on leather patches aren't meant to be laundered. Officers and enlisted troopers got the embroidered ones for the M42's and M43's. I do believe this was the real deal so much that I may have some decals made up for the 502nd and 507th.
a2jacketpatches
Active Member
ties70 said:As far as I know the 507th PIR patches were mostly embroidered....some decals exist but I haven't seen any jackets with them.
Here's a leather one I have done for a forum member to reproduce his Dad's jacket:
Ties
That is one super job with the paint brush and shows genuine skill and use of color.
The paratrooper patches are extremely rare, embroidered or leather. Neither were hand made, so a clear photo of any example should be good enough to rule out any fakes, no matter how talented the artist. Decal patches were screen printed and applied using adhesive, heat, and pressure. Close hands on examination using a pin to see if the decal surface gives (even just a little) will determine modern materials ( acrylic paint or decal film ) as opposed to the brittle film and oil based paint used back in the day. Oil paint and old film will chip or the pin will poke right through an area where it started to lift. Hope I explained this clearly enough, it's good knowledge when looking at a theater made patch.
unclegrumpy
Well-Known Member
ties70 said:
That is exactly my experience as well. Most original 507th PIR patches are US made on twill....I have only seen one theatre made embroidered patch that I was sure was real.
I think this decal patch is either an outright fake or something someone made from a decal meant to go in a car window or a on footlocker. These decals were pretty common PX items and even more commonly sold postwar to veterans.
If you think about it for a moment, most original AAF decal Squadron patches are to units...like the Air Transport Command, Troop Carrier Command, Las Vegas Army Air Field, Pecos Field and so on.....that had lots of people in them where it made sense to cheaply mass produce patches. It does not make much sense to go to the trouble to make a decal patch for the 507th PIR where only a few officers would be allowed to wear it. Plus, if they did, it would be a common patch rather than a "rare" one.
a2jacketpatches
Active Member
http://www.ww2-airborne.us/units/502/502.html
You'll fine a leather example of the 502nd on this site along with an abundance of accurate info. It's only my guess that the leather spider is real based on this leather 502nd. Circumstances are very important as well, again, if I saw this at an estate sale for 20- along with some jump wings and an Airborne photo, I'd be all over it, after I puked from excitement.
I did a little looking around on another forum that has a lot of knowledgeable Airborne enthusiasts, very typical for them to post Ebay fake alerts due to the rarity of PIR items. I found nothing on this patch. It is also very typical for them to say nothing to keep the interest at a minimum. If someone tried to pass off a fake, it would be very obvious to them, and they'd be all over the guy like a flock of seagulls on a McD's french fry.
You'll fine a leather example of the 502nd on this site along with an abundance of accurate info. It's only my guess that the leather spider is real based on this leather 502nd. Circumstances are very important as well, again, if I saw this at an estate sale for 20- along with some jump wings and an Airborne photo, I'd be all over it, after I puked from excitement.
I did a little looking around on another forum that has a lot of knowledgeable Airborne enthusiasts, very typical for them to post Ebay fake alerts due to the rarity of PIR items. I found nothing on this patch. It is also very typical for them to say nothing to keep the interest at a minimum. If someone tried to pass off a fake, it would be very obvious to them, and they'd be all over the guy like a flock of seagulls on a McD's french fry.
unclegrumpy
Well-Known Member
a2jacketpatches said:
I don't see a leather 502nd on this site. The patch I see is the US made embroidered version.
a2jacketpatches
Active Member
Sorry, different page, about half way down
http://www.101airborneww2.com/insignia.html
http://www.101airborneww2.com/insignia.html
