Goodwear vs Eastman vs Bill Kelso

[chucktaylor90]

Thanks for the responses guys! I appreciate it!

 

[Smithy]

Holy cow! Not your fault but this question must have been asked/considered/debated/argued at least 400 times on here.

Jan's (Mulceber) answer on the previous page is exactly what you need.

It's a classic newbie question but please use the search function.

Saying that and with that said, what is the best and most accurate manufacturer of wartime A-2 jackets?

Easy-peasy, GW.

 

[blackrat2]

The thing with John is he is always pushing the envelope
Finding new knits, linings, learning how to salvage parts of original zips and even using NOS ones
He has a good selection of leathers from different suppliers and his new goat which he will dye to different shades is simply stunning
Eastman really do a cracking job with the advertising and they are great with customer focus but if your lucky enough to chat to John or email him you can see how passionate he is
I’ve had Eastmans in the past and for an Irvin would for sure be looking at them and Aero BUT for an A-2 it’s gotta be John

 

[mulceber]

if your lucky enough to chat to John or email him you can see how passionate he is

This. John's enthusiasm is infectious. People complain about the long wait lines, but the enthusiasm when you eventually do talk to him goes a LONG way toward making up for the wait. The quality of the finished product, of course, goes the rest of the way, and then some.

 

[Chandler]

People complain about the long wait lines...

Anyone who complains about GW wait times is either clueless about the one-man op, or just a plain dick. Seriously, I see getting a jacket direct from John as a sort of privilege. It's really a one-of-a-kind situation for a true vintage FJ enthusiast.

 

[foster]

Scale of 1-10
Leather and other materials quality GWL 10, ELC 9, BK 8
Durability All 10
Craftsmanship GWL 10, ELC 8, BK 7.5
Patterns/fit and Reproduction Accuracy (almost the same to me) GWL 10, ELC 5, BK 7

The above is merely my opinion, based on having owned 6+ GWL, 3 ELC, and 1 BK A-2 jacket.

More specifics on the criteria:
Leather & Materials - All 3 use good quality materials. The BK jacket I owned had very supple leather at first, which became excessively stiff after becoming wet. ELC sometimes has some sort of clearcoat to their leather and that is why I rated them less than 10.

Durability - All of these are durable jackets. All of them will show usage wear starting with the same areas of lining and cuffs, etc.

Craftsmanship - All are well made, but the details are the difference. BK has some sort of adhesive visible along certain seams in the leather and zipper. ELC showed some evidence of adhesive inside the collar stand lining over time. No issues along these lines with the GWL.

Patterns / Fit and Reproduction Accuracy - Well, GWL makes a custom fit that is accurate if your measurements are taken correctly. As for patterns, GWL is the most accurate by far. ELC incorporates a lot of modern garment construction techniques in their patterns (larger than original seam allowances), which aren't always visible at first but they do show up as the item breaks in. Some of the ELC contract patterns are almost the same basic jacket with different collars, epaulettes and pockets. BK makes a good pattern, but I found some of the same modern patterning with seam allowances which aren't always visible until the jacket begins to break in.

 

[jwamznalx]

Hey, what do you guys think of some Japanese brand, like BUZZ RICKSON, REAL MCCOY, TOYS MCCOY, etc. I know these Japanese brand are famous at some motor jackets, but they also made good flight jacket repro. Do you think they are making the same level jackets as what are mentioned here?

 

[Shanghai-Mayne]

Hey, what do you guys think of some Japanese brand, like BUZZ RICKSON, REAL MCCOY, TOYS MCCOY, etc. I know these Japanese brand are famous at some motor jackets, but they also made good flight jacket repro. Do you think they are making the same level jackets as what are mentioned here?

If you need size 36 or 38 , try Japanese brand.

 

[mulceber]

Hey, what do you guys think of some Japanese brand, like BUZZ RICKSON, REAL MCCOY, TOYS MCCOY, etc. I know these Japanese brand are famous at some motor jackets, but they also made good flight jacket repro. Do you think they are making the same level jackets as what are mentioned here?

The Japanese brands are sort of doing their own thing. The craftsmanship is fantastic, but whereas in the west, the main criteria on which brands are judged is their ability to pass for an original, in Japan it's more like they're taking the details of the originals and using them as a starting point for making a beautiful jacket. If you use a hookless zipper or double-barrel eyelets on a contract that never had them, no one cares. If you decide to put rust-colored knits on a B-10, what does it matter, as long as it looks cool? Different attitude. They're great jackets though, and as @Shanghai-Mayne said, if you're a small size, you can get some great deals on used ones on Yahoo Auctions Japan.

 

[Shanghai-Mayne]

in Japan it's more like they're taking the details of the originals and using them as a starting point for making a beautiful jacket. If the you use a hookless zipper or double-barrel eyelets on a contract that never had them, no one cares. If you decide to put rust-colored knits on a B-10, what does it matter, as long as it looks cool? Different attitude.

Exactly!

 

[Pilot]

The Japanese brands are sort of doing their own thing. The craftsmanship is fantastic, but whereas in the west, the main criteria on which brands are judged is their ability to pass for an original, in Japan it's more like they're taking the details of the originals and using them as a starting point for making a beautiful jacket. If the you use a hookless zipper or double-barrel eyelets on a contract that never had them, no one cares. If you decide to put rust-colored knits on a B-10, what does it matter, as long as it looks cool? Different attitude. They're great jackets though, and as @Shanghai-Mayne said, if you're a small size, you can get some great deals on used ones on Yahoo Auctions Japan.

I agree… but only if considering recent years..
Both BR and TRMcC‘s ( in Japan ) made very (historically) accurate jackets… made…
When they decided to move parts of their production and marketing fo PRC… it became the way it’s described above.
Just compare their older products with what they offer nowadays…( Ebay is a good window for that ).
Some of their Nylons are still unmatched..
By experience

 

[Shanghai-Mayne]

At <Lighting> September 2022 issue, manager of the RM stated, materials get more expensive every year, as result they need to compromise a bit, so they can deliver without rise their price too high. But , that’s what I understand, it’s not literally quotet.

 

[P-47 thunderbolt]

I have a RW 27752 from Eastman, BK and Goodwear.
When I get time I could compare the three.
In short, GW is the top in terms of pattern accuracy and craftsmanship - also leather is beautiful and the choice is yours.
BK has a good pattern and the Liberty hide is a good match to original but has high edgewear and the zipper is lower quality.
Eastman is not so good on pattern - narrow arms, excessively large collar, poor knits BUT the leather is beautiful and craftsmanship is better than BK - feels tighter stitching. It looks a damn cool jacket. In this way it is like the Japanese makers.
Eastman has great customer service also.
JC is very personable and amazing to talk to. Knowlegde second to none.

 

[Brettafett]

Echo the above.

 

[Pa12]

I also agree with one individual jacket. My first Elc was before they offered the specific contracts. I guess what they now call “house jacket “. Beautiful. I’m still kicking my ass for selling it. When I first saw them offering the contract jackets I thought, wow, as nice as this one is those have to be even better. So I sold mine and bought a roughwear. The collar was definitely pretty crazy. But it didn’t have tight sleeves. Quite the opposite. In fact the whole jacket was very baggy, almost 80’s baggy. Size was the same as all my elc’s and lengths were perfect. Also, the colour started to “disappear “when it was barely a month old. I didn’t mind at first as it was on high spots and gave it a vintage look. But it got a little crazy. In 4 or 5 years of gentle wear I would say about 40 percent of the colour was gone. I didn’t have the knowledge at the time to know these were problems. Frustrating because I’ve seen many examples of the same jacket on the forum and my jacket did not look like that. Can’t explain it. Built on a Friday at 4:45 maybe? Anyways, it’s water under the bridge now. Long gone.