Goodwear vs Eastman vs Bill Kelso

[chucktaylor90]

As I have been looking at Reproduction A2's I have noticed that there "seems" to be consensus that if you want the very best you get Goodwear. But not too much further down I see a lot about Eastman and Bill Kelso. Maybe others I have missed. My question is what makes one better than the other in this regard? Better materials? Better patterns? More faithful reproductions? Why is Goodwear considered better? Is the end product a better jacket?

If I were making a survey on this I would grade them on these criteria:

Scale of 1-10
Leather and other materials quality
Durability
Craftsmanship
Patterns/fit
Reproduction Accuracy

Does Goodwear have better patterns and does a better reproduction, but Eastman makes a more durable jacket? Are Bill Kelso jackets better leather, but not as faithful reproductions? Does one use a better leather that will age better, but not age in the exact same way that an original would?

I'm just trying to understand what people are ranking them based on. This helps for someone like me who is trying to figure out my priorities. First and foremost I am looking for a jacket that will fit well and last me for the next 40 years. A perfect reproduction may not be best if that means that the long-term durability is compromised. I have a friend who spent a bunch of money on some old-school Japanese denim that was faithfully manufactured the way it was in the 40's. That is super cool except they fell apart really quickly because it was manufactured in an antiquated manner. Cool reproduction, but lacked durability. Does this come into play here at all?

Hopefully that makes any sense whatsoever.

Thanks.

 

[leper-colony]

 

[Nickb123]

Goodwear has superior collars to ELC, I’ll say that. Just my opinion.

 

[mulceber]

Ok, I'll wade in. I've owned jackets from all three, although mostly Good Wears.

Durability is basically a wash, so you can probably just ignore that category. All of the brands you named make jackets that will likely last decades. Material quality as well. They're all using top-tier materials, but I think there's something to be said there (see below).

• Leather and other materials quality - GW: both BK and Eastman have their own house leathers that they use for their jackets. That's nice and all, but it basically means that you're rail-roaded into one or two choices, no matter what contract you choose. Originals were made out of leather from tanneries across the US, and they varied considerably. JC has access to basically the same leathers as BK and Eastman, but he also is always on the hunt for new leathers to try from other tanneries, and so he can frequently advise you on what leather would be best for a given contract.
• Craftsmanship - all of them are very well made, but GW is one man making a jacket for you, vs. small factories/workshops operated by the other two.
• Patterns/fit - John customizes the jacket to your build. BK offers that as an option that you have to pay for, Eastman only offers the option of getting a little extra length.
• Reproduction Accuracy - GW is constantly improving. For several of the contracts, John has multiple patterns that he offers, based on originals that he's taken apart or examined. And he's still looking for more. He's studied how the originals were constructed to the extent that he can even reproduce flaws and errors that are seen in originals. BK and Eastman both have good patterns, although, of the two, I give the edge to BK for accuracy. Eastman's always seem to have narrow sleeves, even when the originals didn't.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go find some cover before the mortar shells start raining down.

 

[Micawber]

View attachment 125101

Save some for me!!!

 

[CBI]

Mulceber covers it pretty well. Contributing members of this forum are going to be the most particular and knowledge about this stuff. Many members (not saying Mulceber) are ridiculously and needlessly OCD about the microscopic details, things to geek out about that I am not sure really matter to the average interested jacket person (guess ya gotta have a site for the crazies, of which I am a member). Good wear is generally considered the most authentic with Eastman upping their game to wear they are very close if not equal depending on the contract. GW, there is a long wait but you can get custom sizing. I don't think you can really go wrong with either GW or ELC. Kelso has been hit or miss with many. On a good day, the equal pretty much to either GW or ELC but they are an operation that has been through changes with an inconstant track record. That said, satisfied Kelso buyers will swear by them. Good luck deciding, especially buying new as these jackets are getting really pricey!!!! GW has amazing one on one service. Charles at HPA is very helping with sizing/fit for ELC. "Good" patterns in this world mean most accurate to originals. Also going to depend on your body type, if you would be better with custom sizing, etc.

 

[B-Man2]

Hi Chuck
Welcome to the forum .
Probably one of the most repeatedly asked questions , for as long as I’ve been around here . If you don’t find the answers to the questions you’re looking for, the search function on this sight will provide you with reams of information to help answer them .
Cheers and good luck with your search .

 

[Micawber]

Mr Grumpy says… You wont get your dinner served on a plate from me as the information requested is out there already. Search the forum. Read and absorb the info and views of members both past and present.

Put some effort in, seek and you will find.

Then ask on TFL and maybe one or two other places on t’internet.

 

[CBI]

problem is the info is not very clear and simple and in one place which is why this gets asked really often. Probably for some, its only worth so much of a search.

 

[chucktaylor90]

Mr Grumpy says… You wont get your dinner served on a plate from me as the information requested is out there already. Search the forum. Read and absorb the info and views of members both past and present.

Put some effort in, seek and you will find.

Then ask on TFL and maybe one or two other places on t’internet.

I mean this with absolutley no disrespect because I know how annoying it is for the new guy to come in and ask all the same questions. I actually did do a fair bit of searching but found it hard to get the direct comparisons I was looking for. I am open to any suggestions about how to navigate the site better.

 

[chucktaylor90]

Ok, I'll wade in. I've owned jackets from all three, although most of them Good Wears.

Durability is basically a wash, so you can probably just ignore that category. All of the brands you named make jackets that will likely last decades. Material quality as well. They're all using top-tier materials, but I think there's something to be said there (see below).

• Leather and other materials quality - GW: both BK and Eastman have their own house leathers that they use for their jackets. That's nice and all, but it basically means that you're rail-roaded into one or two choices, no matter what contract you choose. Originals were made out of leather from tanneries across the US, and they varied considerably. JC has access to basically the same leathers as BK and Eastman, but he also is always on the hunt for new leathers to try from other tanneries, and so he can frequently advise you on what leather would be best for a given contract.
• Craftsmanship - all of them are very well made, but GW is one man making a jacket for you, vs. small factories/workshops operated by the other two.
• Patterns/fit - John customizes the jacket to your build. BK offers that as an option that you have to pay for, Eastman only offers the option of getting a little extra length.
• Reproduction Accuracy - GW is constantly improving. For several of the contracts, John has multiple patterns that he offers, based on originals that he's taken apart. And he's still looking for more. He's studied how the originals were constructed to the extent that he can even reproduce flaws and errors that are seen in originals. BK and Eastman both have good patterns, although, of the two, I give the edge to BK for accuracy. Eastman's always seem to have narrow sleeves, even when the originals didn't.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go find some cover before the mortar shells start raining down.

This is very helpful. Gives me some context about these makers. Thanks.

 

[mulceber]

This is very helpful. Gives me some context about these makers. Thanks.

There's also this, which gives a more comprehensive run-down of the different makers, although it pretty much just covers the basics of each one.

 

[chucktaylor90]

There's also this, which gives a more comprehensive run-down of the different makers, although it pretty much just covers the basics of each one.

That's actually a really great reference again by you! You sir are a gentleman and a scholar!

 

[B-Man2]

That's actually a really great reference again by you! You sir are a gentleman and a scholar!

More true than you could ever imagine Sir !

 

[bseal]

Headwind.

 

[mulceber]

Headwind.

But he's not here to sell jackets.

 

[bseal]

But he's not here to sell jackets.

I wish just once he actually would.

 

[Chandler]

One thing to note about JC is that he started knee deep as a flight jacket enthusiast -- on a forum just like this (probably before, like many of us).

His original, and ongoing, intent is to make reproductions as authentically close to originals as possible because it's something he always wanted for himself.

While Eastman and Kelso may have (or had) similar intentions and business plans, John sure hasn't veered from his goal (or his enthusiast's passion) for recreating originals. His jackets are true craftsman pieces.

It's why I've always wanted to have something fitted from him and why I'm in the queue.

 

[mulceber]

One thing to note about JC is that he started knee deep as a flight jacket enthusiast -- on a forum just like this (probably before, like many of us).

His original, and ongoing, intent is to make reproductions as authentically close to originals as possible because it's something he always wanted for himself.

While Eastman and Kelso may have (or had) similar intentions and business plans, John sure hasn't veered from his goal (or his enthusiast's passion) for recreating originals. His jackets are true craftsman pieces.

It's why I've always wanted to have something fitted from him and why I'm in the queue.

Building on that, I'll add that being a one-man operation sorta works to John's advantage when it comes to accuracy. He's able to bring all of his knowledge to bear on each jacket he produces in a way that Gary Eastman can't, and he's free to experiment in order to hone his craft, where the other makers have to think about rent and keeping their employees paid, and such.

 

[CBI]

yes, JC really is THE MAN. I think I have given ELC not enough love in the past. they were the benchmark for so many years and I still really like their jackets.