CWU-45/P aka CWU-17/P

I just acquired the early version of the CWU-45/P, contract MIL-J-83388A. According to the website I found on the subject, this jacket didn't have the CWU-45/P on the label until 1977, altough it's virtually the same jacket. My jacket is dated 1976, so it doesn't have the CWU-45/P on the label nor does it have the CWU-17/P on it either which is what it was designated until 1977. My question is why didn't they put CWU-17/P on the label prior to 1977? It also seems to be a darker material than the newer CWU-45/P jackets I've seen.
Label reads as follows.

JACKET, FLYERS, COLD WEATHER
MIL-J-83388A DTD 05 SEPT. 1973
LARGE (42-44)
8415-00-316-1133
DSA100-76-C-0481
GREENBRIER INDUSTRIES INC.
100% AROMATIC POLYAMIDE


I've never owned one, but this one came at a good price, so I went with it. Fits like a 44 or larger and feels fairly comfortable.

Stony said:

My question is why didn't they put CWU-17/P on the label prior to 1977?

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Not sure as to the answer, but they didn't put a designation on these little nomex jackets, either, and they were being issued in the same time frame. I like these jackets...they are great spring and fall windbreakers...but to this day I have no idea what to call them.



AF

That'd be the CVC jacket (Combat Vehicle Crew jacket).

There's a summer weight version and a winter jacket.

The winter jacket is made in olive and desert, afaik the summer version has never been made in desert, but if anyone has one available .....

Both version are the most practical of all US flight jackets: not sweaty on the skin like the CWU but skin-freindly cloth-like nomex/aramid, easily washed, sturdy, easy accessible and perfectly placed hand warming pockets, collar strap to warm the throat.
Sizing is a whole lot better too: small/medium/large/Xlarge combined with short/regular/long.

The winter weight jacket has a velcroed slit on the back, claimed to facilitate extracting crewmembers from a burning vehicle.
Some have claimed it to be for ventilation, but I can't bend my arms that far back, and the velcro will close itself naturally anyway.

Wouldn't the CWU-17 be supposed to be equipped with some velcroed pouch inside with some dayglow orange rescue stuff in it?
Some early CWU-45 do have that, I think there's a thread on that pouch.

Rutger said:

That'd be the CVC jacket (Combat Vehicle Crew jacket).

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Well, this jacket does look much like the CVC jacket, but I'm not sure they are the same. At least they don't have the same tag. As you can see, according to its tag, this jacket is a "Flyer's Jacket". It was actually owned by an Army Warrant Officer pilot.

AF

Yeah, that's what I came to think last night, the light weight version would probably be basically meant for the army pilots, and the winter jacket is basically part of the CVC ensemble (coverall etc.) that is used by tank crews and the like.
The jackets are not for the same group, but the basic design is the same, like the CWU-36 and -45 are of the same construction.

It would be odd to include the back slit for extracting personnel in the winter jacket, but not in the summer jacket.
From what I found last night, the back slit is there to reach to the extraction harness, so the jacket is probably not designed to carry the weight of a man.

I did a few short searches on the internet, I wonder if someone knows which jackets are officially issued to which personnel.
I can imagine that army pilots would want to wear the winter jacket as well.

Rutger said:

I can imagine that army pilots would want to wear the winter jacket as well.

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Still not sure what to call these jackets, but CVC works well enough for me. I've halfheartedly tried to find a winter-weight "flight" CVC jacket to go with my summer versions. Everytime I buy one, though, it ends up being just a CVC jacket complete with the velcroed back opening. I've given several of these wrongly purchased CVC jackets away thinking I'd eventually find what I was looking for...a winter flight jacket with "flyer's on the tag and no back slit. I still think such an animal existed...but it probably roamed the earth before the eighties.

AF

Rutger said:

I did a few short searches on the internet, I wonder if someone knows which jackets are officially issued to which personnel.
I can imagine that army pilots would want to wear the winter jacket as well.

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As a former Army pilot, I can confirm that I was issued both jackets -- summer and winter -- along with a N-2B and N-3B. When I was issued mine (~1984/85), both jackets came with black velcro patches for attaching leather nametags. When I wore one jacket out, the replacement I received was without the velcro and Name/US Army embroidered tapes were used. I never heard of them referred to as anything other than 'summer flight jacket' and 'winter flight jacket'. The N-2B and N-3B were simply 'parkas'.

Atticus said:

Rutger said:

I can imagine that army pilots would want to wear the winter jacket as well.

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Still not sure what to call these jackets, but CVC works well enough for me. I've halfheartedly tried to find a winter-weight "flight" CVC jacket to go with my summer versions. Everytime I buy one, though, it ends up being just a CVC jacket complete with the velcroed back opening. I've given several of these wrongly purchased CVC jackets away thinking I'd eventually find what I was looking for...a winter flight jacket with "flyer's on the tag and no back slit. I still think such an animal existed...but it probably roamed the earth before the eighties.
AF

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The winter flight jacket was exactly the same as the CVC jacket. The only difference was the black velcro patch added for the flight jacket. Both had the back slit/velcro opening on the upper back. I'll check my jacket this afternoon. I'm not sure what the label says. The jacket is my issue jacket from the mid-80s. It's the Army version of the CWU-45/P

Both had the back slit/velcro opening on the upper back.

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I almost asked that two days ago but didn't want to bother you with that, so didn't ask finally.
Glad you were able to check.

As I've never seen the winter jackets without the back slit I figure it has always been made that way, for both tank and army flying personnel. Until someone has positive evidence of the contrary, in which case I'd have to start a search to get one.

From all the CVC jackets I have, exactly one actually has the actual CVC expression on the tag, the rest does not.
I also have one jacket in which a mil spec number is printed, the rest does not.

From the internet I found that tanker crews refer to the jackets as CVC jackets quite often, presumably because it is part of the CVC ensemble. Army flight personnel I suppose will have been issued a combination of army and air force clothing, each with their own designation, and very unlikely to be called combat crew vehicle clothing. Aren't MAC pilots called truck drivers? Or was that the A-1?

Atticus said:

Still not sure what to call these jackets, but CVC works well enough for me. I've halfheartedly tried to find a winter-weight "flight" CVC jacket to go with my summer versions. Everytime I buy one, though, it ends up being just a CVC jacket complete with the velcroed back opening.

AF

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I don't blame you for being confused, Geoff. Get a load of this unissued '86 Alpha example that I removed from its sealed wrap, complete with the paper label shown at upper left:






Most of us haven't been lucky enough to find one in the wrap, but as you can see the labels indicate that this design is both a flyer's jacket as well as a CVC jacket. Everybody wins! :lol:

Atticus said:

I've given several of these wrongly purchased CVC jackets away thinking I'd eventually find what I was looking for...a winter flight jacket with "flyer's on the tag and no back slit. I still think such an animal existed...but it probably roamed the earth before the eighties.

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Absolutely corrrect. Here are two pics I gleaned from that well-known militaria site. According to the seller, this example dates from 1976. The storm flap clearly distinguishes it as a cold-weather version. Although the pics aren't the best, the absence of pocket flaps and Velcro opening are evident. Summer-weight jackets of similar vintage also lack the pocket flaps. I'm not sure of the exact year the Velcro opening was standardized, but I've seen them as early as 1980.

I'm quite pleased as I've just nabbed this off Ebay for twenty-five quid!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170779659812? ... 1439.l2649

According to 'Suit Up!' this is actually a J-CWFS, precursor to the CWU-45/P. It also ought to have the signal pocket on the inside, which I will be looking out for with interest. I've owned two CWU-45/P's, one of which I still have, and they are my favourite of the 'nylon' jackets, so I'm well pleased to have nabbed an early version, and it looks in good nick, too.

I'm quite pleased as I've just nabbed this off Ebay for twenty-five quid!

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In American dollars that's about what I paid for mine Mikey and mine is also the "pre" CWU-45/P model like yours.

[quote="Rutger]From the internet I found that tanker crews refer to the jackets as CVC jackets quite often, presumably because it is part of the CVC ensemble. Army flight personnel I suppose will have been issued a combination of army and air force clothing, each with their own designation, and very unlikely to be called combat crew vehicle clothing. Aren't MAC pilots called truck drivers? Or was that the A-1?[/quote]

For us, they were just 'flight jackets'. Nobody ever took notice of which one you were wearing. Sadly, I think these jackets are long since out of the inventory. With the intro of the two-piece NFU (nomex flying uniform) and follow-on versions, the green jackets went away.

Aside from the color (an acquired taste), these jackets are my personal favorites for comfort/wearability. I prefer the summer jackets -- both my USAF CWU-45 and the Army winter jacket were seldom worn. I found them too bulky. I'm sure they were warmer but hey, that's what the army gave me that 5-button sweater for!

To continue the two-threads-in-one-thread I found some very clear pics of the early army winter flight jacket on ebay (not my size, so I can safely publish them ). The tag says it all. The pockets seem velcro-closable to me. Given the jacket is almost 40 years old it is in remarkable condition, somewhat faded.

Informative thread this is, as I had never seen or heard of this jacket before (or hastely skipped it as yet another CVC jacket).

Now I got to find myself one and make my wife understand that it is different from all the other ones, even if they look an awfully lot the same. Thankfully, these are pretty cheap, shipping to Europe is often more than the cost of the jacket itself.

As a sidenote, I think these jackets started out as aviation items and branched off to be CVC clothing with the introduction of the turbine-powered M-1 Abrams tank.

Interesting early winter jacket. By the 1980s, the jacket I received was apparently dual issue aside from the velcro patch. I'm now wondering how many of the older guys were wear these earlier style jackets and I simply never noticed. Thanks for posting the photos!