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A2 contract dates

R

Robman

Member
Just a thought but it seems from time to time we go back and forth regarding A2 contract dates and whether or not a particular A2 is "prewar" or wartime issue, etc. Where can we turn to get concrete information or is this just all left for specualtion at this point in time.

Recently on ebay I saw a 1756 that had bombing missions written by its original owner in its lining starting in 1943.....I certainly understand that it could have been written after the fact or even fabricated. I also saw a 23383 unnamed goatskin contract described as "prewar" but couldn't help but notice the AAF property stamp on the label which most of us have taken to mean a wartime production. Just makes you wonder...

I don't remember where I saw the info on the RW 18091 goat contract as "late 1941 or early 1942" but whomever had it could you please re post it (may have been on the old site). Maybe Swing?
 
R

Roughwear

Well-Known Member
Orders/contracts production time varied and lasted for many months. The following information is largely taken from Aota Mituhiro's research for Full Gear. Some of the dates are his best guess based on known information and the sequence of contract numbers. Swing might is able to give even more precise dates.

The fiscal year of US government before 1976 was from July 1st. to June 30th. So if a guessed fiscal year is 1940, the contract date might be 1939 or 1940. The dates below are from Full Gear, p 21.

Pre-War Order numbers Fiscal Year
32-485 Security (Aviation Togs) 1932
33-1729 Werber 1933
36-1112 P Werber 1936
37-3061 P Aero 1937
37-3891 P H.L.B. Corp. 1937
38-205 Werber 1937
38-1711-P Aero 1938
39-2951 P Werber 1939
40-3785-P Aero 1940
Contract Numbers
W535ac16159 Rough Wear 1941
W535ac16160 Aero 1941
W535ac18091 Rough Wear 1941
W535ac20960 Dubow 1941
W535ac21996 Aero 1941
W535ac23377 Perry 1942
W535ac23378 Monarch 1942
W535ac23379 Dubow 1942
W535ac23380 Rough Wear 1942
W535ac23381 Cooper 1942
W535ac23382 Cable 1942
W535ac23383 unknown 1942
W535ac27752 Rough Wear 1943
W535ac27753 unknown (Cable) 1943
W535ac27798 Dubow 1943
W535ac28557 Star 1943
W535ac28560 Poughkeepsie 1943
W535ac29191 Bronco 1943
W535ac29971 unknown (David D Doniger) 1943
W535ac35419 unknown 1943
Order Numbers
42-1401-P Rough Wear 1942
42-1402-P Werber 1942
42-10008-P Cable 1942
42-15142-P Aero 1942
42-16175-P Perry 1942
42-18245-P Star 1942
42-18246-P unknown (S.H. Knopf ?) 1942
42-18775-P Aero 1942
42-18776-P Spiewak 1942
42-18777-P United Sheeplined 1942
42-21539-P David D. Doniger & Co. 1942
V505 Made in Australia 1943
W33-038ac1755(11631) Dubow 1944
1756 unknown 1944
W33-038ac1761 Bronco 1944
 
Swing

Swing

New Member
Robman said:
Just a thought but it seems from time to time we go back and forth regarding A2 contract dates and whether or not a particular A2 is "prewar" or wartime issue, etc. Where can we turn to get concrete information or is this just all left for specualtion at this point in time.

Recently on ebay I saw a 1756 that had bombing missions written by its original owner in its lining starting in 1943.....I certainly understand that it could have been written after the fact or even fabricated. I also saw a 23383 unnamed goatskin contract described as "prewar" but couldn't help but notice the AAF property stamp on the label which most of us have taken to mean a wartime production. Just makes you wonder...

I don't remember where I saw the info on the RW 18091 goat contract as "late 1941 or early 1942" but whomever had it could you please re post it (may have been on the old site). Maybe Swing?
Click to expand...

1756 is from summer '44.

23383 is a pre-war contract (or very early '42), but production wasn't until some time in '42.

18091 would have been late '40/early '41, 42-1401 would have been late '41.

~Swing
 
9

9thinfdiv

New Member
Great information, but why do some jackets have contract numbers on the labels and others have order numbers? I've never understood the difference. Thanks!
 
Swing

Swing

New Member
9thinfdiv said:
Great information, but why do some jackets have contract numbers on the labels and others have order numbers? I've never understood the difference. Thanks!
Click to expand...

All contracts have both numbers, but for whatever reason you see contract numbers being used on some jackets between late '40 and spring '42. I have no clue why, and I have no clue why, for example, Roughwear used the contract number on the label for their first two contracts, used the order number (1401) on their third contract, and then back to their contract number for the last two contracts. Then you've got Star and Doniger who recieved one contract each, used two different labels at different times through their production run, some with the contract number, others with the order number.

~Swing
 
Swing

Swing

New Member
Roughwear said:
Orders/contracts production time varied and lasted for many months. The following information is largely taken from Aota Mituhiro's research for Full Gear. Some of the dates are his best guess based on known information and the sequence of contract numbers. Swing might is able to give even more precise dates.

The fiscal year of US government before 1976 was from July 1st. to June 30th. So if a guessed fiscal year is 1940, the contract date might be 1939 or 1940. The dates below are from Full Gear, p 21.

Pre-War Order numbers Fiscal Year
32-485 Security (Aviation Togs) 1932
33-1729 Werber 1933
36-1112 P Werber 1936
37-3061 P Aero 1937
37-3891 P H.L.B. Corp. 1937
38-205 Werber 1937
38-1711-P Aero 1938
39-2951 P Werber 1939
40-3785-P Aero 1940
Contract Numbers
W535ac16159 Rough Wear 1941
W535ac16160 Aero 1941
W535ac18091 Rough Wear 1941
W535ac20960 Dubow 1941
W535ac21996 Aero 1941
W535ac23377 Perry 1942
W535ac23378 Monarch 1942
W535ac23379 Dubow 1942
W535ac23380 Rough Wear 1942
W535ac23381 Cooper 1942
W535ac23382 Cable 1942
W535ac23383 unknown 1942
W535ac27752 Rough Wear 1943
W535ac27753 unknown (Cable) 1943
W535ac27798 Dubow 1943
W535ac28557 Star 1943
W535ac28560 Poughkeepsie 1943
W535ac29191 Bronco 1943
W535ac29971 unknown (David D Doniger) 1943
W535ac35419 unknown 1943
Order Numbers
42-1401-P Rough Wear 1942
42-1402-P Werber 1942
42-10008-P Cable 1942
42-15142-P Aero 1942
42-16175-P Perry 1942
42-18245-P Star 1942
42-18246-P unknown (S.H. Knopf ?) 1942
42-18775-P Aero 1942
42-18776-P Spiewak 1942
42-18777-P United Sheeplined 1942
42-21539-P David D. Doniger & Co. 1942
V505 Made in Australia 1943
W33-038ac1755(11631) Dubow 1944
1756 unknown 1944
W33-038ac1761 Bronco 1944
W35-098ac755(1631) Willis & Geiger 1944
Click to expand...

I'll start at the bottom, and work my way back up.

The contracts listed after the Australian jacket are from summer '44, though I've never seen or heard of the W&G contract.

Contracts 42-15142-P through 42-21539-P are certainly from between January to June 1942. I don't know about 42-10008-P. I'm still not convinced that it and W535ac23382 Cable aren't the same contract with two seperate labels being used during production. If they are one in the same, they're from late '41.

1401 and 1402 are certainly from summer '41.

All the contract numbers listed as 1943 are wrong, they're from 1942. 27752 through W535ac29971 would have been awarded between January and June 1942. Never heard of seen of W535ac35419.

18091 through 23383 would have been spread out across 1941. 16159 and 16160 were more than likely late 1940.

The 1940 and earlier jackets are close. Some might have been in the year prior to what's listed.

Remember, these are dates contracts were awarded, not produced. Some of these contracts probably didn't get made until months after being awarded.

~Swing
 
R

Robman

Member
It would make sense then that some of the contracts, particularly those from some of the bigger companies would not have been produced until late 42 or early 43...production and awarding of contracts are apples and oranges (most likely?)
 
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