GB goatskin Historical A-2

Chandler · Apr 30, 2008

Grabbed some shots of my older Gibson & Barnes goatskin size 44. Not sure on the age of this one, another E-Bay purchase. I'm pretty sure this was manufactured right when Flight Suits first started using the Gibson & Barnes moniker, but before they started with signifying years as their versions.

The goat is nothing like a modern G-1 I have, closer to a 50s G-1 I own -- though it's very "crisp" feeling -- almost stiff. The goat grain is very pronounced. The waistband is great, though the cuffs have almost the same stiffness as the leather -- almost as though the whole thing got sizing all over it.

I hope I captured the color well, but it was difficult -- it's really a caramel color, very similar to Cables and Perrys I've seen.

Chandler

bfrench · Apr 30, 2008

Chandler said:
Grabbed some shots of my older Gibson & Barnes goatskin size 44. Not sure on the age of this one, another E-Bay purchase. I'm pretty sure this was manufactured right when Flight Suits first started using the Gibson & Barnes moniker, but before they started with signifying years as their versions.

The goat is nothing like a modern G-1 I have, closer to a 50s G-1 I own -- though it's very "crisp" feeling -- almost stiff. The goat grain is very pronounced. The waistband is great, though the cuffs have almost the same stiffness as the leather -- almost as though the whole thing got sizing all over it.

I hope I captured the color well, but it was difficult -- it's really a caramel color, very similar to Cables and Perrys I've seen.

Chandler

Hi, Chandler,

That is an early model - the later ones are made with a collar stand - the goat seems to be very close to the color I have but yours looks a lot grainier - maybe because mine mostly hangs in the closet.

Glad you're getting the knack of the posting pics.

Hey, Just had one of my first thoughts today - if you don't mind, I'll copy your pics and make composites of yous and mine together for a comparison of early and later models?

Bill French

Chandler · Apr 30, 2008

bfrench said:
but yours looks a lot grainier - maybe because mine mostly hangs in the closet.

Mine has always had the grain, but it was real stiff at first, that's loosened up a bit. IIRC, the person I bought from hardly wore it and was thinning out his collection because he was headed off for a military tour of the Middle East -- hope he faired well.

Hey, Just had one of my first thoughts today - if you don't mind, I'll copy your pics and make composites of yous and mine together for a comparison of early and later models?

Funny, I was just coming back to reply that I'd like to see some pics of yours -- have at it.

Chandler

Anonymous · Apr 30, 2008

That looks like the older batch of leather that Flightsuits used. Very strong, stiff leather, should look great with some wear. The new goat seems softer and a little more brown vs russet. Both type of leather seem good but I dont think you can still get that older leather unless you ask.

Chandler · Apr 30, 2008

wing nut said:
Both type of leather seem good but I dont think you can still get that older leather unless you ask.

Any idea why they stopped using this older hide?

Chandler

Anonymous · Apr 30, 2008

Hide supply of that type ran out. Lots of jackets made, then new stock ordered, new batch a little diff. Just like all the jacket makers I expect?

Chandler · Apr 30, 2008

wing nut said:
Just like all the jacket makers I expect?

I suppose, but when you mentioned asking for it, I thought maybe you could still get it. Maybe a limited supply left?

Chandler

Anonymous · Apr 30, 2008

Yes thats what I ment. When I was in the showroom a few weeks ago they had a limited supply of the old hide, like yours.

bfrench · Apr 30, 2008

Hi, Guys,

Here's some composite pics of Chandlers older A-2 goat without the collar stand and my later model with the collar stand.

As you can easily see Chandler's jacket is grainer but then again mine hangs mostly in the closet.

My colors seem to be very close to true on my monitor.

Bill French

Chandler · May 1, 2008

Good stuff Bill. Looks like they've slimmed the sleeves down and it's interesting that your knits seem to be a little more toward the red side. Why doesn't it get more wear?

Chandler

bfrench · May 1, 2008

Chandler said:
Good stuff Bill. Looks like they've slimmed the sleeves down and it's interesting that your knits seem to be a little more toward the red side. Why doesn't it get more wear?

Chandler

Because I wear this one just about every day - custom horsehide AN-J-3 that i had G&B make for me because GW doesn't make them yet.

Bill French

Chandler · May 1, 2008

bfrench said:
Because I wear this one just about every day - custom horsehide AN-J-3 that i had G&B make for me because GW doesn't make them yet.

C'mon -- yeh can't alternate? I do!

Nice lookin' jacket. What hide is that, same that they use on the Historical A-2s? Does it have the bi-swing back? If so, how is the "bat winging?"

My trouble with the G-1 style is the pockets, I just like snaps better.

Chandler

zoomer · May 1, 2008

What do you bet G&B changed the goat because the grainier type went up in price...due to repro jackets getting more popular????

:? :roll:

The new stuff looks more heavily finished and processed - like what you do with somewhat lower grade leather to make it uniform.

bfrench · May 1, 2008

Chandler said:
bfrench said:

Because I wear this one just about every day - custom horsehide AN-J-3 that i had G&B make for me because GW doesn't make them yet.

Click to expand...

C'mon -- yeh can't alternate? I do!

Nice lookin' jacket. What hide is that, same that they use on the Historical A-2s? Does it have the bi-swing back? If so, how is the "bat winging?"

My trouble with the G-1 style is the pockets, I just like snaps better.

Chandler

Hi, Chandler,

It's horsehide - russet - same as their regular russet horsehide used in the Mark 41 and 43.

It has a bi-swing back and doesn't batwing - guess probably because of the heavier horsehide.

The button pockets just feel natural - easy to open and close - sometimes easier to close than snaps especially if you're trying to do it one handed.

The navy jackets are just so much better made than the A-2s and fit a lot easier especially when driving with a seat belt wrapped around you.

And as for the goatskin - that maybe true about a lower quality but the stuff in my jacket is exceptional - probably as good as the stuff in Chandlers but rolled a little heavier through the presses.

Bill French

Chandler · May 2, 2008

bfrench said:
And as for the goatskin - that maybe true about a lower quality but the stuff in my jacket is exceptional - probably as good as the stuff in Chandlers

It certainly looks it -- the comparison is great.

Chandler

bfrench · May 3, 2008

Chandler said:
bfrench said:

Because I wear this one just about every day - custom horsehide AN-J-3 that i had G&B make for me because GW doesn't make them yet.

Click to expand...

C'mon -- yeh can't alternate? I do!

Nice lookin' jacket. What hide is that, same that they use on the Historical A-2s? Does it have the bi-swing back? If so, how is the "bat winging?"

My trouble with the G-1 style is the pockets, I just like snaps better.

Chandler

Hi, Chandler,

In honor of my favourite fighter pilot of all time - Captain "Wild Bill" Kelso - I'll only wear the russet goat Flight Suits Mark 31 from now until the end of the season.

That will put a little wear on it and may put in a few wrinkles also.

Bill French

RAYMUNDO · Jul 3, 2009

The reason the leather was stiffer and more creaky when G&B was Flight suits was because they used a different tanning process at that time. My first early G&B goatskin jacket was vegetable tanned just like the originals were. The jackets made for the last 5 to 8 years were chrome tanned and this process really softened the leather so that no break-in was necessary.

Ray

Anonymous · Jul 4, 2009

Two questions (1) when did they start using the Gibson and Barnes label?
(2) Gibson & Barnes is this named after Guy Gibson & Barnes Wallace or am I way off base !

Thanks gents

Best regards Jeff .

Chandler · Jul 5, 2009

DUBOWA2 said:
Two questions (1) when did they start using the Gibson and Barnes label?

Just off the top of my head, sometime in the late '90s. Funny thing is, that's probably the last time they updated their Flight Suits website too.

Not sure where the name came from, but it's interesting that a quick Google search shows a G&B facility in San Antonio, TX now.

Chandler

Chandler · Jul 5, 2009

RAYMUNDO said:
The jackets made for the last 5 to 8 years were chrome tanned and this process really softened the leather so that no break-in was necessary.

I don't think chrome tanning is the only way to get leather soft. Chrome tanning will permeate the hide with a dark color all the way through (I have an older FS G-1 and some other jackets that used the process), while my ELC Star is soft but the wear is showing lightness from the hide below the finish.

Chrome tanning doesn't allow a nice vintage wear and will always look new -- or just beat up with no character.

The goat A-2 I started this thread with is definitely not soft, but it's got a nice drape to it.

Chandler

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