Who's the real Nazi then?!

[havocpaul]

I have for some time been selling various books from Bender Publishing in the USA who for many years have published the definitive guides for militaria collectors especially Third Reich uniforms, badges and insignia. Ebay have just removed one of these from my listing even though I have sold several of this title before with no issues (I had masked the small swastika symbol on the pic).....their new reasons are

"You are not allowed to list nazi items. Please don't relist.
In accordance with our User Agreement, items prohibited by law or by eBay policy are not allowed on eBay.

We don't allow sellers on eBay to list items that promote violence, hatred, racial or religious intolerance, or items from organisations that promote these views.

We don't allow items or memorabilia associated with the Nazi Party.

You won't be able to list these items even if you crop or edit the listing photo so that an offensive symbol isn't visible..."

This is now censorship gone mad and will have serious repucussions for many militaria dealers. Previously eBay have said it is the swastika that is banned especially in accordance with German law but this new policy seems extreme. Will Luftwaffe jackets be banned too? So who is the real 'Nazi' now then?!


.

 

[havocpaul]

They have responded to my complaint....

"What exactly was the problem with your listing?

We removed your listing because we don't allow Nazi Party memorabilia,
or items with Nazi symbols or messages to be listed on eBay, even if the
offending images (e.g. swastika symbol) don't appear in the listing"

So no Third Reich militaria of any kind then.....that will include Luftwaffe, U-Boat, Kriegsmarine jackets I guess!

 

[asiamiles]

They have responded to my complaint....

"What exactly was the problem with your listing?

We removed your listing because we don't allow Nazi Party memorabilia,
or items with Nazi symbols or messages to be listed on eBay, even if the
offending images (e.g. swastika symbol) don't appear in the listing"

So no Third Reich militaria of any kind then.....that will include Luftwaffe, U-Boat, Kriegsmarine jackets I guess!

Also those Dragon action figures of WWII German soldiers! Though is a German WWII uniform automatically Nazi Party memorabilia? It's clearly one of those grey areas that eBay polices in a very haphazard way. You were probably just unlucky; wait a week or two and list the item again with different wording. I don't know if you used the word "nazi" in your listing, but that's likely to be something the watchdogs pick up on, so best to omit it.

I wonder if eBay is just overly PC about such things, or if they actually worry that they're breaking some laws by hosting the sale of certain items and therefore it's a rather lame attempt at protecting themselves?

 

[deeb7]

You were probably just unlucky; wait a week or two and list the item again with different wording.

You, and I just had this discussion, Miles ...

viewtopic.php?p=44383#p44383

But the problem for Paul, is that if he lists again after a warning, eBay may suspend his account.

 

[asiamiles]

But the problem for Paul, is that if he lists again after a warning, eBay may suspend his account.

I think it's unlikely. As I say, if he leaves out any obvious warning signals, it shouldn't attract any attention, let alone get pulled again. That's how I tend to play it. I guess it all depends on how badly he wants to sell the item.

 

[havocpaul]

It was only listed with the book title; 'For Fuhrer and Fatherland: military awards of the Third Reich', the swastika had been covered up and I have previously sold copies of the book with no difficulty. I have been told not to relist again with warning they will suspend if I do or try and sell similar items, but I have now filed a strong complaint with them as they cannot offer good reasons for banning it. The book can be sold in Europe including Germany where eBay's paranoia seems to stem from; it breaks no UK/EU or US laws and they are just playing at being 'Little Hitler's' themselves....they'll be burning books soon!! They claim this is a new policy which is why I fear for the militaria market on eBay in the future. Also it is not banned on Amazon or ABE who eBay seem to hold in high regard and copy some of their poilicies.

 

[havocpaul]

On searching their rules I find this rather confusing staement:

Examples of items that will generally be removed:

Items that bear symbols of the Nazis, the SS, or the KKK, including authentic German WWII memorabilia that bears such marks, whether visible or covered.
Items that were owned by or affiliated with Nazi leaders

Examples of items that may generally be listed:
German coins and stamps from the WWII era regardless of markings
WWII memorabilia that does not bear the Nazi or SS markings
Books and films about WWII or Nazi Germany that do not contain propaganda, even if the Nazi symbol appears on the item

So by covering up the tiny swastika on the cover surely I covered myself...?

 

[asiamiles]

WWII memorabilia that does not bear the Nazi or SS markings
Books and films about WWII or Nazi Germany that do not contain propaganda, even if the Nazi symbol appears on the item

Surely the above is what you listed...and would seem perfectly acceptable by eBay's guidlines, as would any German uniform as long the swastika or SS symbol is not on them. I do believe eBay will usually remove things without a second thought if someone complains or they happen across them in some purge, rather than stopping and thinking for a moment and considering if an item should stay or go. EBay probably employs someone to act on complaints and remove offensive items, and it's likely that doing so is an easy way of proving they're doing their job.

 

[Lignemaginot]

Some advice - don't even bother trying to rationalize with the people you're communicating with at ebay... you're dealing with very low-level people trying to implement a vague policy about an issue about which they have absolutely zero knowledge.

It makes no sense at all that they forbid Third Reich items, but then have multiple categories for these items in their WWII section - even going so far as to differentiate between original and reproduction items.

It drove me nuts until I finally rationalized the whole thing by saying it's their store, and they're entitled to allow or not allow whatever they want - regarldess of their written rules.

 

[Anonymous]

'Fuhrer' & 'Fatherland' could easily be contrued as Nazi words. Try listing under 'German military uniforms' book or the like. I don't condone ebays many stupid policies - including making the selling of knives and bayonets illegal in the UK - but we ain't going to change the rules so we need to smarten up and outwit it instead.

J_H

 

[havocpaul]

The idea of putting the title in the listing means it also can appear on a google search. They have responded again and it appears I can now sell it if I only post to UK, USA/North America/Asia so it seems to be eBay trying to avoid upsetting Europe, probably Germany in particular. It is interesting to note that many museums in Germany allow the swastika on uniforms/tanks/aircraft displayed so it is not a firm ban. Here is their latest reply...interesting that they allow Mein Kampf!

Hello Paul,

Thanks for your email about the removal of "Military Awards Of Third
Reich",(Item no.200355127413). I'm happy to help you with this.

In the spirit of our worldwide community, eBay doesn't allow listings or
items that can be used to promote or glorify hatred, violence or racial
intolerance. This includes items directly associated with the Nazi
party, such as those described as Hitler Youth, HJ, NDSAP, NSKK, Nazi,
SS, or Third Reich.

We understand that items from or related to Nazi Germany are sought
after by collectors and historians worldwide, so there are a limited
number of exceptions to this policy on eBay.co.uk:

- Stamps and coins, even if they display Nazi symbols
- Books and movies that are non propaganda in nature
- Mein Kampf
- The Swastika symbol provided it is not Nazi-related (good luck symbols
from New Mexico, ancient Greek artwork, etc.)

You may list these items on eBay.co.uk if you remove the Europe and
Worldwide postage options. You may post to the rest of the world, such
as UK, North and South America, Australia and Asia.

Bear in mind, many of our members reside in countries where the sale or
possession of these items is considered a criminal offence.

I hope this is helpful and wish you all the best on eBay in the future

 

[m444uk]

Sounds like the winning bidder in Germany was lucky to be able to view this book I listed on the bay of fleas !

There are no large Nazi symbols on display,the Iron cross award dates from 1813 and is a symbol from the 14th century, but the eagle is carrying the offending item !

 

[havocpaul]

Just shows eBay has no idea what their own policy is, I guess it depends on which politically correct dimwit is checking the current listings at the time.