Wartime use of early Werber and SAT

[Weasel_Loader]

Anyone ever seen any wartime photos of a early Werber or better yet, SAT? It puzzles me that even a '39 Werber would not have been in use. One would think that even an occasional A-1 could be seen in the early war years.

 

[zoomer]

I'd be surprised:

-Since you only got issued one jacket at a time, and gave it serious wear every day, the service life of a jacket probably was less than 5 years.

-Army pilots during the 30s typically were much older than the average in WW2 (and the early A-2 was ONLY issued to pilots - not aircrew). Those staying in service typically moved into command positions by wartime, and were seldom seen in flight kit at all.

-Some riveted-zipper jackets probably survived with replacement, all-sewn zippers, making them harder to spot in pictures.

 

[Weasel_Loader]

Are you sure A-1 and A-2s only got issued to pilots? You can see in below photos that some airmen are wearing leather helmets without communication which means they were most likely observer/gunners. Then again, all the "airmen" in the photo are officers. I was always under the impression that enlisted performed observation/gunner duties. Does this make sense?

 

[zoomer]

AIUI - I could be wrong - there weren't any nonpilot officers on aircrews at the time. They might have flown as observers, navigators, etc., but I believe all active duty AC officers had their pilot wings (or else they were put out of the AC). The majority of air reserve officers, however, did not.

I know the before the Norden sight came on in 1935, bombardiers were usually enlisted, which I found surprising.

I don't know enough about the open cockpit bombers to know who was wired for radio and who wasn't, or whether there was intercom among the crews. Whatever the situation, 7 of the 17 in the pic have no cans.

 

[Swing]

Anyone ever seen any wartime photos of a early Werber or better yet, SAT? It puzzles me that even a '39 Werber would not have been in use. One would think that even an occasional A-1 could be seen in the early war years.

I'm sure '39 Werbers would have seen combat, and I've seen examples of mid 30s jackets that were worn during the war (now in the hands of collectors or museums). Don't know that I've ever seen one in a war time photo though (but they wouldn't exactly stand out).

As for the early button pocket A-2s, their production numbers were probably in the 500 to 1000 jacket range (if that). Examples were so rare to begin with, it's highly unlikely that even if they were still in service that you'd come across one in a photo. I do think they would have been around though because they would have been cared for and refurbished, and I doubt depression era aircrews were getting in a lot of flight hours and putting a lot of wear and tear on their gear. And they wouldn't be spending the day around base wearing an A-2 like a pilot would have been during WWII (they'd have had on a dress blouse).

~Swing

 

[drew parker]

Look at the guy standing 2nd from the right, he's wearing a A-1.

 

[deeb7]

Look at the guy standing 2nd from the right, he's wearing a A-1.

... and see this earlier thread.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5777

 

[zoomer]

Probably taken in 1933. Krogstad and Royce (2d from r and r) are both wearing A-1s.
Note also the size and position of nametags just above and slightly inboard of the left pocket. Many of the pilots in the 7BG shot (taken in 1934, IIRC) have had these removed, with only the stitch marks remaining.

 

[Chris217]

I see Hap's wearing a SAT A-2. There's also a real good picture of him wearing a SAT in the book "History of the U.S. Air Force."

 

[zoomer]

I'd sure like to see that if you have it!

Here's Arnold wearing a big ole sack of a Werber in 1934, arriving in Washington with 10 B-10s to begin the famous run to Alaska. (Maybe he had some layering in mind!) With him are (l to r) Glenn Martin, Acting Sec'y of War Woodring, and AC Chief Maj. Gen. Foulois.

 

[Persimmon]

Can I ask a dumb question.
I own a A1 jacket and a small selection of A2's but I do not know what a SAT A2 is.
What does SAT stand for ?
Followed this trail for a while but just have to ask and I guess look dumb.

Alan

 

[deeb7]

... What does SAT stand for ?

Alan, it's Security Sports Wear... the first (1932) maker of the A-2, distinguished by it's buttoned pocket flaps.

The forum uses the acronym SAT from the civilian Security Aviation Togs label.

 

[Persimmon]

David,
Thanks.
I am always learning and at last it makes sense.
Cheers
Alan

 

[Weasel_Loader]

Thanks for the photo Zoomer. Love those 1930s AAC photos.

 

[rikbb]

In wartime photos men always seem to wear A-2's in a particular way, with the waist knit in a 'V' shape. Like pulling down the front where the zipper starts and then pulling over the hips the leather sides of the jacket body. Is this done on purpose? Like the curled up collars?

 

[oose]

hi,

Hap in 1933.

unknown date

unknown date

yours stu