Vintage Jacket Myths

[Atticus]

Or, the knit needed replaced and green was used since blue wasn't available. But in the photo above, all the knit on that jacket is green, and that photo is from 1954 or 1955. That jacket can't be more than three or four years old and I find it hard to believe that in that short period of time all of its knit parts needing replaced.
~Swing

I agree that the knits would have not all needed replacing after only a few years. I'm thinking that the cuffs went quickly and and the rest of the knits were replaced at the same time using the same color....probably at the request of the jacket's owner.

But, perhaps in opposition to my own argument, I have a N-2A that came to me with old, military, sage cuffs... and the waistband is still blue.

AF

 

[deeb7]

I agree that the knits would have not all needed replacing after only a few years. I'm thinking that the cuffs went quickly and and the rest of the knits were replaced at the same time using the same color....probably at the request of the jacket's owner.

As I said, I was convinced by Brook's, well illustrated post ... and Swing has listed the possible scenarios.

Fading, or oxidisation, can happen quickly, another example is the Dobbs MA-1. I now have the example previously restored by Jim ... I don't know what colour you would call it, but it sure ain't sage.

 

[Atticus]

I deleted this original post...it was nothing bad or nasty...but it just said the same thing that I'd said before and didn't add a new thought.

AF

 

[watchmanjimg]

Fading, or oxidisation, can happen quickly, another example is the Dobbs MA-1. I now have the example previously restored by Jim ... I don't know what colour you would call it, but it sure ain't sage.

You said it, David. That's a strange anomaly even among jackets exhibiting known UV fading. The uniformity of color is what struck me. As I recall, the Ebay seller erroneously stated the jacket as having been specially produced for some desert application. While in a vacuum this theory may seem plausible given those goofy tan CWUs being issued, it was a nice try that fell somewhat short of the mark. The truth is that I don't know what the hell happened to that Dobbs, but it's an interesting example just the same.

 

[Peter Graham]

That is an odd one. I couldn't hazard a guess as to what happened there. Is the inside the standard colour ?

 

[watchmanjimg]

That is an odd one. I couldn't hazard a guess as to what happened there. Is the inside the standard colour ?

Peter:

As I recall, the lining is the standard color but the facing on the inner pockets has faded to the same color as the shell. The phenomenon appears to have been limited to the particular type of nylon used to make the shell. The inner pocket facings are of the same fabric (David, correct me if I'm wrong as it's been awhile since I've seen the jacket).

 

[zoomer]

The LW Raider page gave me a chuckle:

The Past is a foreign country, they do things differently there. We don't.

:lol:

 

[watchmanjimg]

The LW Raider page gave me a chuckle:

The Past is a foreign country, they do things differently there. We don't.

:lol:

Looks like Stu had something of a hiccup there, doesn't it? Speaking of the Raider, it seems that my old one is still around. Thinking seriously of buying it back, but I would like to have the side-entry pockets sewn shut. That was its biggest drawback in my opinion.

 

[deeb7]

I deleted this original post...it was nothing bad or nasty...

I'm betting I was insulted. :mrgreen:

 

[deeb7]

As I recall, the lining is the standard color but the facing on the inner pockets has faded to the same color as the shell. The phenomenon appears to have been limited to the particular type of nylon used to make the shell. The inner pocket facings are of the same fabric (David, correct me if I'm wrong as it's been awhile since I've seen the jacket).

The inner pocket facings are still sage, but have started to change. The outer pocket facings still have a hint of sage, but are almost the ... uh ... new colour.

The outer shell colouring is surprisingly even.

 

[Jaydee]

You said it, David. That's a strange anomaly even among jackets exhibiting known UV fading. The uniformity of color is what struck me. As I recall, the Ebay seller erroneously stated the jacket as having been specially produced for some desert application. While in a vacuum this theory may seem plausible given those goofy tan CWUs being issued, it was a nice try that fell somewhat short of the mark. The truth is that I don't know what the hell happened to that Dobbs, but it's an interesting example just the same.

I like the new Desert Tan CWUs. If they wern't so damn expensive I would get one. You would definately not be mistaken for a skinhead wearing one of those. IMO they look pretty cool.

 

[Atticus]

I deleted this original post...it was nothing bad or nasty...

I'm betting I was insulted. :mrgreen:

Naw...I was just admitting to not being much of a chemist...but then I remembered all the "experiments" I did in undergraduate school.

AF

 

[Anonymous]

Is it true that in WW2 if a serviceman was known to have excessive tunnelling on his flight jacket that he couldn't win gallantry awards and that his number of missions for a tour was doubled ?? :? :?

Dave

 

[dilbert]

This is a very interesting thread. I was a Navy pilot in the '60's and 70's, was issued a G-1 (Ralph Edwards issued in '67) and we were told that the small inner pocket was for the E-6B. As for carrying a sidearm I find it very unlikely as it was a military jacket and any sidearm would be expected to be properly holstered but, then again, nothing is impossible. I'd never heard of this before.

In practice, however, I never knew anyone who used this pocket. Any interior pocket is accessible only on the ground as when strapped in you would have on top of the jacket a Mae West flotation device that covered the entire chest, a parachute harness on top of that with cross straps that fastened mid-chest and then on top of all that the shoulder and seat straps in the aircraft. We used the E-6B's extensively but it was more convenient to carry them in the lower leg pocket of the flight suit (easily accessed when sitting in the cockpit).

In looking in the inner pocket of my old G-1 just now I found an old squadron patch and an old leather name tag that had been replaced when I had been promoted. These pockets were pretty much useless for much of anything else.

 

[watchmanjimg]

This is a very interesting thread. I was a Navy pilot in the '60's and 70's, was issued a G-1 (Ralph Edwards issued in '67) and we were told that the small inner pocket was for the E-6B. As for carrying a sidearm I find it very unlikely as it was a military jacket and any sidearm would be expected to be properly holstered but, then again, nothing is impossible. I'd never heard of this before.

In practice, however, I never knew anyone who used this pocket. Any interior pocket is accessible only on the ground as when strapped in you would have on top of the jacket a Mae West flotation device that covered the entire chest, a parachute harness on top of that with cross straps that fastened mid-chest and then on top of all that the shoulder and seat straps in the aircraft. We used the E-6B's extensively but it was more convenient to carry them in the lower leg pocket of the flight suit (easily accessed when sitting in the cockpit).

In looking in the inner pocket of my old G-1 just now I found an old squadron patch and an old leather name tag that had been replaced when I had been promoted. These pockets were pretty much useless for much of anything else.

Excellent! So often we "experts" hypothesize, but it's nice to hear from someone with actual and specific experience.

It also appears that this thread prompted your discovery. How long had the patch and nameplate been in the pocket?

 

[Tim P]

Regarding Myth No. 3:

I was down at a vintage show in L.A. the other week with a pal and we found this very real and very original beauty...

John, was your opinion that the knits on this were faded or coloured fro stock? any telltale stitch anomalies alluding to a repleacement?
In any event, blue jackets with OD knits existed as shown in the Korea(?) pic. how the knits came to be OD is almost an academic point. what pleases me most is the my Buzz superior toggs is not bogus.