The G-1 Design

[Philalethes]

Forgive me if there is already a post on this subject.

I am trying to understand the G-1 design and what conditions the G-1 was made for.

1) Why doesn't the windflap go all the way to the top of the jacket? It would seem more windproof if it did. Would it interfere with a part of the uniform?

2) The G-1 would seem to be made for cold conditions because of the wool knit cuffs and mouton collar. However, the goat and thin lining is decidedly not warm. What is the reason for the discrepancy? Are the cuffs and collar merely to keep out drafts? (But then, why doesn't the A-2 have a mouton collar?)

 

[Atticus]

There has been much discussion about jacket design, but not in any one thread that I know of. For what they are worth, here are some of my opinions.

I have always believed that both the G-1 and the A-2 were basically summer wind breakers. They were designed when many aircraft had open cockpits and low service ceilings. Airmen needed jackets that could be worn in those aircraft...but in warmer weather. There were other, mainly sheepskin, jackets for true cold weather flying.

I have always believed that the mouton collar on the G-1 had nothing to do with making the jacket warmer. I think it was there to reduce neck chafing. It eliminated the need for the airman to wear a scarf, as was necessary when wearing leather collared jackets.

I can only guess that the wind flap was cut short so as to not interfere with an officer's necktie.

AF

 

[rotagz]

I agree with Mr. Finch with regard to windflap and ties. As to the mouton collar, Navies of the world are always very tradition bound and I think in designing the 422 the fur collar is a nod to the earliest days of flight and flying gear. Nothing you can take to the bank, just a thought.

Cheers,
Bo

 

[Falcon_52]

I have always believed that the mouton collar on the G-1 had nothing to do with making the jacket warmer. I think it was there to reduce neck chafing. It eliminated the need for the airman to wear a scarf, as was necessary when wearing leather collared jackets.

That's an interesting thought. I never considered that - you may be onto something there!

Noel

 

[Monsoon]

I have always believed that the mouton collar on the G-1 had nothing to do with making the jacket warmer. I think it was there to reduce neck chafing. It eliminated the need for the airman to wear a scarf, as was necessary when wearing leather collared jackets.

That's an interesting thought. I never considered that - you may be onto something there!

Noel

Well, we were always told that they started wearing silk scarves during WW1 because of the wool uniform collars chafing pilot's necks. The mouton collar makes sense that way.

 

[Philalethes]

Thanks for the replies.

As for the windflap, I, too, have wondered if it was cut short so as not to interfere with ties. I wear ties easily with my G-1, but mine is not quite a vintage fit: it is a size 42, whereas I wear a 38.

Interesting thoughts about the collar. By the way, people must have had small necks back then. As I mentioned, my G-1 is two sizes too big. However, I have to close the collar by putting the tab only halfway on the button. If I close it all the way, it is so tight that it gets stuck on my neck and I need assistance to open it.

 

[dilbert]

Forgive me if there is already a post on this subject.

I am trying to understand the G-1 design and what conditions the G-1 was made for.

1) Why doesn't the windflap go all the way to the top of the jacket? It would seem more windproof if it did. Would it interfere with a part of the uniform?

2) The G-1 would seem to be made for cold conditions because of the wool knit cuffs and mouton collar. However, the goat and thin lining is decidedly not warm. What is the reason for the discrepancy? Are the cuffs and collar merely to keep out drafts? (But then, why doesn't the A-2 have a mouton collar?)

I believe the windflap was designed to stop short of the neck so as to not rub the neck with the jacket partly zipped. The flap is there to prevent wind coming through the zipper, hence its name. There was a change to the early Nomex CWU-45's to cut down the collar or "wind shield" for similar comfort. I was a Navy pilot in the 60's and 70's and we never had the tight restrictions of the Air Force about how the jacket was to be worn (or decorated- jackets in my time were highly loaded with patches, both squadron and "been there" patches). There was no rule about wearing them partially zipped or open as in the Air Force and, as for a tie, the jacket was technically not a uniform item and, therefore, not to be worn with a uniform. That was a rule widely ignored, but you never wore your jacket with your uniform off station or, certainly anywhere near surface officers ("black shoe" Navy). I was stationed at NAS North Island (San Diego) and my squadron decided to send me TDY to the Naval Station for a class that was only given there. I received a strong warning before I departed not to be seen with my jacket at the Naval Station as not only would I hanged, burned and quartered but my skipper would be called on the carpet as a result of me appearing out of uniform. The jacket was to be worn with a flight suit only by the rules, but we always wore ours around squadron spaces.

As for the knit cuffs, the design of the G-1 was evolutionary, not revolutionary. It evolved out of predecessors that had similar design features. The knit cuffs were a part of early jackets as early aircraft were open cockpit and the knit cuffs and waist sealed the jacket and prevented drafts of cold air coming up your arms. Aircraft of WW II were flown often with open cockpits as well- all carrier landings were done with open canopies, for instance, to aid egress in the event the aircraft went into the water. Ejection seats have replaced the need for open cockpits today.

Another feature of the knit cuffs that I have never heard talked about but I think may have been a factor is that it makes the jacket more adaptable to different size people. I have trouble buying jackets as my arms are a little shorter than average for ready-made clothing and I always have to have cuffs shortened. The knit cuffs, however, are relatively tight around my wrists and I have never needed to shorten any of my military flight jackets for that reason. It makes them much more practical when trying to clothe a lot of people with the same equipment. I don't know if that was a factor in design but it certainly was a help for me.

The G-1 was designed as a summer-weight jacket (it has "Intermediate" stated in the cloth tag) similar to the Army's A-2. The Army designated the summer-weight jackets with "A" and winter-weight jackets with "B" at the time, hence the A-2 and B-3. The Navy had lighter cloth flight jackets as well which were more practical in the tropic climates that the Navy and Marine pilots flew in the Pacific. Pilots would be issued with heavier fleece jackets when flying in really cold climates.

I don't recall ever seeing anything heavier worn by anyone in my time but my flying was mostly West Coast, San Diego and Whidbey Island (Washington State), so I never got into really cold weather. If you were flying on a really cold day you would simply add more layers underneath your flight suit (it had to be under the flight suit as the suit was Nomex and you wanted its resistance to fire on top rather than flammable cotton or wool).

The mouton collar made the jacket more comfortable and practical. The G-1 was a more complex and, therefore, expensive jacket with the mouton collar, bi-swing back and goat skin leather. When the Army was considering replacing the A-2 it came up with the ANJ-3 which was very similar to the G-1, but was short lived and the Army went to cloth instead (the B-10 which had a mouton collar). Mouton was expensive, however, and was eventually replaced by synthetics by the Air Force in later jackets as well as the Navy jackets made after a certain date (as I recall it was the "E" series of G-1's appearing in the 70's- I was lucky to have been issued a "C" model).

 

[Atticus]

Another bit of G-1 folklore that I have always heard: The G-1's bi-swing back was to make the jacket easier to swim in. Back in the thirties, when the M-422 was designed, the Navy figured that an airman would likely have to swim while wearing his jacket at least once during his career.

AF

 

[Dr H]

Thanks gentlemen. A fascinating discussion about a jacket with which I'm not particularly familiar.

 

[dadgad]

Another bit of G-1 folklore that I have always heard: The G-1's bi-swing back was to make the jacket easier to swim in. Back in the thirties, when the M-422 was designed, the Navy figured that an airman would likely have to swim while wearing his jacket at least once during his career.

AF

Yes and also the choice of goatskin for the iconic US Navy jacket is with many probabilities related to goatskin natural water repellent properties.

 

[Anonymous]

Another bit of G-1 folklore that I have always heard: The G-1's bi-swing back was to make the jacket easier to swim in. Back in the thirties, when the M-422 was designed, the Navy figured that an airman would likely have to swim while wearing his jacket at least once during his career.

Anyone has tried to swim with your clothes and shoes on?
Try it and tell me how it feels.

 

[HackerF15E]

Another bit of G-1 folklore that I have always heard: The G-1's bi-swing back was to make the jacket easier to swim in. Back in the thirties, when the M-422 was designed, the Navy figured that an airman would likely have to swim while wearing his jacket at least once during his career.

Anyone has tried to swim with your clothes and shoes on?
Try it and tell me how it feels.

FWIW, all USN and USAF pilots have to do this as part of water survival training -- both a pool and "open water" swim in full flight gear (boots, helmets, harness, etc). I don't remember how far, exactly, the swim was, but it was a total pain in the rectum (and exhausting!).

 

[Monsoon]

Anyone has tried to swim with your clothes and shoes on?
Try it and tell me how it feels.

Been there, done that. It sucks, but it can be done. For me, it's just kicking harder since I'm wearing flight boots. The LPU we were is rated to hold up some incredible amount of weight (something like 500 pounds when both are inflated). They are taking into account that they have to hold up a guy (or gal) with uniform, boots, survival vest, and a water-logged parachute (until you can unclip it).

 

[Philalethes]

Another bit of G-1 folklore that I have always heard: The G-1's bi-swing back was to make the jacket easier to swim in. Back in the thirties, when the M-422 was designed, the Navy figured that an airman would likely have to swim while wearing his jacket at least once during his career.

Anyone has tried to swim with your clothes and shoes on?
Try it and tell me how it feels.

I had to do this many years ago as a Boy Scout: as another has said, it is not easy but doable. (I imagine it is much harder to do in full flight gear.) I would recommend trying it to prepare for emergencies: accidents happen, and you may find yourself overboard one day.

 

[Philalethes]

Thanks for the very detailed reply, Dilbert: it answered many of my questions.

Here is another question: does anyone know what kind of tanning process is used for the goat in the G-1?