Principles Violated

[Stony]

This Aero A-2 is up on ebay for sale.

http://cgi.ebay.com/WW-2-A-2-Flight-Jac ... 7C294%3A50

I didn't know this and was answering an ad on Craigslist for the same jacket where it was advertised for $500. There was nothing in the Craigslist ad saying that it was also on ebay. I also didn't find out about the ebay ad until the seller went back on his word when I agreed to pay the Craigslist price. We had discussed the shipping and I agreed to everthing. Two emails later he says it's on ebay and the price has reached $1000. If he had said something about it being on ebay alsoin his Craigslist ad, then I wouldn't have had a problem with it. In my opinion he has violated principles and ethics here. I don't care that I would have gotten this jacket at a good price, I'm just irked becuase he went back on his word.

Am I mistaken here?

Thank you
Stony

 

[jacketimp]

This Aero A-2 is up on ebay for sale.

http://cgi.ebay.com/WW-2-A-2-Flight-Jac ... 7C294%3A50

I didn't know this and was answering an ad on Craigslist for the same jacket where it was advertised for $500. There was nothing in the Craigslist ad saying that it was also on ebay. I also didn't find out about the ebay ad until the seller went back on his word when I agreed to pay the Craigslist price. We had discussed the shipping and I agreed to everthing. Two emails later he says it's on ebay and the price has reached $1000. If he had said something about it being on ebay alsoin his Craigslist ad, then I wouldn't have had a problem with it. In my opinion he has violated principles and ethics here. I don't care that I would have gotten this jacket at a good price, I'm just irked becuase he went back on his word.

Am I mistaken here?

Thank you
Stony

stony,

no you're not mistaken........unfortunately times are a changing and gentlemen from the ole skool are a dwindling breed.

the aero went for $2K !! go figure :?


imp

 

[Anonymous]

I am afraid this is a dog eat dog world we live in ,when it comes to money and ethics nothing surprises me .Rgds Jeff

 

[mazeta]

He should have mentioned in the Craigslist ad that the jacket is also on eBay and that it is 'subject to prior sale.'
What amazes me more is that such a jacket like that even appears in Craigslist in the first place.

 

[asiamiles]

the aero went for $2K !! go figure :?

Just two bidders, and even though a zero f/b seller the jacket sold for far more than it's worth.

 

[Stony]

Yes, the jacket is only probably worth around $1,000, so I'll bet he's a happy man. He replied this evening saying that when he was exchanging emails with me he thought it was an ebay inquiry. If my inquiry was from ebay, then there would have been something in the body of those emails with ebay's information in there.
Here's the subject line of all our emails.

"World War 2, A-2 Leather Pilots Jacket - $500 (Lakewood)"


Pretty hard to say that mine was an ebay inquiry. As for this being on Cragislist, there are two other A-2s for sale on there and they're loaded with noseart and patches and have big dollars on them. I forgot which cities they were in, but if you do a search by "A-2 Flight Jacket" in all the major cities listed, you should find them. Lot's of other militaria on there too.

 

[rpmooreii]

I had a similar scenario happen to me awhile back. I found a great Monarch G-1 in sz 44 and came to an agreement with the seller and paid for the item with paypal. A day or so later a guy started pinging the forums saying he wanted a Monarch in sz 44 and that he would pay $300. Of course, I didn't respond and a day later the seller refunded my money w/o explanation and sold to this other guy. Clearly the buyer started offering the seller more and more money (more than $300) until the seller reneged on my sale and sold the jacket to him. I quickly put two and two together and e-mailed the "new" buyer and gently suggested that he back off in the name of "collector spirit" to which he basically said "tough luck, buddy".

Worst part of the story... the guy is a member here and he has made several references to his great Monarch G-1. Of course, he never mentions "how" he acquired the jacket...

 

[havocpaul]

I agree, very bad practice indeed. I am a believer in either an item is for sale in lists, on forums etc OR on eBay but not both; this also leads to my other annoyance where items are removed from eBay before the auction ends mostly due to a 'better' deal struck off eBay. There is a UK militaria dealer who goes around the shows displaying his stock much of which is at the same time on eBay, many items with a BIN; no buyer at the shows would be aware of this and if he sold at a show and then at the same time someone bought on his eBay with a BIN then he would be in a mess. Perhaps a name and shame list could be compiled so as to warn any future buyers/bidders from falling for the same 'scams'.

 

[Anonymous]

What about people who offer something up on here and on ebay ? Are we o.k. with that because we benefit ?

Or people who list on here and/or on ebay who then pull the sale / auction because they've either changed their minds or sold to a good offer or don't think they'll get what they want for it ?

I'm not offering an opinion one way or the other - I'll keep my own counsel on that - but I'd be interested to hear what people think.

Dave

 

[jacketimp]

What about people who offer something up on here and on ebay ? Are we o.k. with that because we benefit ?

Or people who list on here and/or on ebay who then pull the sale / auction because they've either changed their minds or sold to a good offer or don't think they'll get what they want for it ?

I'm not offering an opinion one way or the other - I'll keep my own counsel on that - but I'd be interested to hear what people think.

Dave

agreed.........are we from the outside looking in..or from the inside looking out (for ourselves)

i know where my loyalty lies............numero uno

 

[havocpaul]

Personally I think offer it here or give a heads up to an eBay listing not both as this could cause annoyance especially if the item has had a bid; I don't like to see any items removed early from eBay and as I have said before, those that have a habit of doing that I don't bother bidding on. With the trend for sniping how does one know if there will be good bids anyhow. As a frequent eBay seller I do not end items early or agree to 'off-ebay' deals, I list at a price I am happy with or with a reserve and let it run its course.

 

[Atticus]

The law is actually very simple on this issue. An offer to buy or sell is an offer until it is accepted or it is revoked. If it is accepted, it then becomes a contract immediately upon acceptance. If either party then fails to preform, it is breach.

If one makes an unqualified offer to sell a specific jacket on Craigslist and that offer is accepted, an enforceable contract is formed. Failure of the seller to perform under the terms of that contract is breach. The concurrent e-bay listing of the subject of the contract is irrelevant to the issue.

By the way, when the subject of a contract is unique, such as a WWII flight jacket, specific performance of the contract can be a remedy available to the buyer.

AF

 

[Stony]

The law is actually very simple on this issue. An offer to buy or sell is an offer until it is accepted or it is revoked. If it is accepted, it then becomes a contract immediately upon acceptance. If either party then fails to preform, it is breach.

If one makes an unqualified offer to sell a specific jacket on Craigslist and that offer is accepted, an enforceable contract is formed. Failure of the seller to perform under the terms of that contract is breach. The concurrent e-bay listing of the subject of the contract is irrelevant to the issue.

By the way, when the subject of a contract is unique, such as a WWII flight jacket, specific performance of the contract can be a remedy available to the buyer.

AF

I appreciate the legal information and maybe a little email declaring this legality might light a little fire under his arse. I did in so many words in an email to him say how displeased I was with his actions. He probably doesn't care as he got four times what he asked for on Craigslist. The little devil in me hopes that the buyer goes back on their word to buy the jacket (inset the "what goes around comes around" clause here).

 

[watchmanjimg]

The law is actually very simple on this issue. An offer to buy or sell is an offer until it is accepted or it is revoked. If it is accepted, it then becomes a contract immediately upon acceptance. If either party then fails to preform, it is breach.

If one makes an unqualified offer to sell a specific jacket on Craigslist and that offer is accepted, an enforceable contract is formed. Failure of the seller to perform under the terms of that contract is breach. The concurrent e-bay listing of the subject of the contract is irrelevant to the issue.

By the way, when the subject of a contract is unique, such as a WWII flight jacket, specific performance of the contract can be a remedy available to the buyer.

AF

I appreciate the legal information and maybe a little email declaring this legality might light a little fire under his arse. I did in so many words in an email to him say how displeased I was with his actions. He probably doesn't care as he got four times what he asked for on Craigslist. The little devil in me hopes that the buyer goes back on their word to buy the jacket (inset the "what goes around comes around" clause here).

While Geoff's information certainly sums up the basic legal issues, as a practical matter how easily could this contract be enforced? Do the parties reside in the same jurisdiction, and if not, can you realistically expect to litigate the issue? In a perfect world you can recover attorney's fees, court costs, etc. but this is far from a perfect world. Is a lawsuit really feasible? I totally agree that this seller is a reprehensible toad and should not have listed the jacket on Craigslist and Ebay concurrently without disclosing it, but I think our collective disdain is likely the worst he's facing here.