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Anonymous
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EMBLEMHUNTER
Well-Known Member
I don't think it is the unit listed, I have seen a couple of photos of this emblem on the nose of early A-36 Invader (pre P-51 Mustang) and they were supposedly with some air base unit type , I have also been trying to find a "possitive" ID to this patch for some years now. I don't see how it could have been related to the 447th seeing as it was on the nose of "fighter" type,albeit a "Fighter Bomber" . And it being a "Dive Bomber" type I can't see how it would have been used by a "level" bombing unit such as the 447th .
I'm leaning towards either a "Fighter Bomber" type or school for the Fighter Bomber " training , there was a recent magazine issue that had a photo of two A-36 witht his emblem on the noses , one was serial number 42-83721 or 283721 and was taken at Buckley Field , Colorado 1943.
Other than this , the photo was the only one I have ever seen the emblem in "use" so to speak , I have yet to find a photo anywhere of it on a flight jacket, base sign etc , so this one is a very "elusive" design I also would love to get nailed down .
Johnny
The only 447th Bombardment Group emblem design I have ever seen depicts a B-17 top view on a pointed shield background and the B-17 is 'ringed " with 12 five point stars and has the square with the letter "K" in the lower area below the B-17 and a "motto" across the top of the shield , "Fiat Justita Ruat Coelum" . And even this emblem was "Unofficial" .
I'm leaning towards either a "Fighter Bomber" type or school for the Fighter Bomber " training , there was a recent magazine issue that had a photo of two A-36 witht his emblem on the noses , one was serial number 42-83721 or 283721 and was taken at Buckley Field , Colorado 1943.
Other than this , the photo was the only one I have ever seen the emblem in "use" so to speak , I have yet to find a photo anywhere of it on a flight jacket, base sign etc , so this one is a very "elusive" design I also would love to get nailed down .
Johnny
The only 447th Bombardment Group emblem design I have ever seen depicts a B-17 top view on a pointed shield background and the B-17 is 'ringed " with 12 five point stars and has the square with the letter "K" in the lower area below the B-17 and a "motto" across the top of the shield , "Fiat Justita Ruat Coelum" . And even this emblem was "Unofficial" .
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Anonymous
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EMBLEMHUNTER
Well-Known Member
Possibly , but what would the "tie in" be related to it being the noses of the two A-36 aircraft ??????????????????????
I'm thinking the guy's jacket even though it has the "Bomb Sqd" patch on it may have started in one area( as a fighter pilot), then either washed out and was moved to the "Bomb" unit as Fighter types were harder to get into , and the gunners were not "flight" rated"Pilots", so this could be the explanation of that jackets having the two types, but this is just a WAG .............................
I still don't think it had anything to do with the "Bomb Group/Sqd's" .
Johnny
I'm thinking the guy's jacket even though it has the "Bomb Sqd" patch on it may have started in one area( as a fighter pilot), then either washed out and was moved to the "Bomb" unit as Fighter types were harder to get into , and the gunners were not "flight" rated"Pilots", so this could be the explanation of that jackets having the two types, but this is just a WAG .............................
I still don't think it had anything to do with the "Bomb Group/Sqd's" .
Johnny
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Anonymous
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Confusing as the gunner was a crew man on a B-17
EMBLEMHUNTER
Well-Known Member
What I was trying to say is , during WW2 by what I've read when a person who was trying to be a "pilot" washed out didn't cut it , they were sometimes given the "option" of going into a "Flight crew" position, rather than being discharged,or stuck in a "desk job" so this guy could have "started off in a "Fighter Bomber " outfit but didn't make the cut and was then "transferred" to the B-17 unit as a "Gunner" , it did happen .
He just may never had thought of taking off the patch once he got with the B-17 unit , or another possibility he did make it for awhile with the Fighter unit then for whatever reason may have had somethign happen that he couldn't fly anymore and had the "option" of changing to a "flight crew" to at least still be in the "air" rather than stuck at a desk job........................................
This emblem needs more "documentation" photo proof of it's "origin" before I call it 100% ID'd ...................................
He just may never had thought of taking off the patch once he got with the B-17 unit , or another possibility he did make it for awhile with the Fighter unit then for whatever reason may have had somethign happen that he couldn't fly anymore and had the "option" of changing to a "flight crew" to at least still be in the "air" rather than stuck at a desk job........................................
This emblem needs more "documentation" photo proof of it's "origin" before I call it 100% ID'd ...................................
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Anonymous
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Ebay seller that goes by widbill e-mailed me a said he has an original, and has tracked it to an air gunners school, but has not determined which one fyi
EMBLEMHUNTER
Well-Known Member
Stony said:
For info with "Invader" for the A-36 type in this ,
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_A-36Apache
Or this
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:A-36_Invader jpg
There's more on other pages too..................................
Johnny
Stony
Well-Known Member
Never knew the A-36 as the "Invader", always known it as the Apache. But hey, you learn something every day. Here is a pic of the Aero Scotland A-2 I used to own that Jerome painted for me about 10 years ago. I had it painted after meeting Mike Russo, the only A-36 ace of the war.
