need help to ID this nice patch

[dujardin]

helloooooo

i receive this from Johnny
cab someone help to ID ???

part of the message :

This emblem was on the nose of an early A-36 serial number 283721 or 42-83721 and was flown into Cal Aero Field, California in 1943 from Buckley Field , Colorado , the aircraft was either in a natural metal finish or painted over all silver with the emblem/serial number and star/bar national emblems .

many thanksssss
marcel

 

[dujardin]

i remember i had it in my file as 447BG 709BS and send the answer to Johnny but this is his answer :


Hey Marcel, no I think this is mis ID'd , the 709th BS was a falling bomb being flown around by a small plane making contrails, and the Group design was a shield with a top view of a B-17 with stars in a circle around it and the motto-Fiat-Justita-Ruat-Coelum".



I think this is a very different unit , most likely a Fighter training type or a Replacement training unit .

byeeeeee
marcel

 

[EMBLEMHUNTER]

Thank you Very much Marcel for posting the image for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am hoping one of the forum or someone will recognise this one so I can Finally get it put away into the proper album for the unit "type" ,looking forward to hearing from someone !

Johnny

 

[shedonwanna]

The "flying bullet" may have been used by aerial gunners in the 709th. The patches I have seen were all decal on leather and attributed to the 709th squadron. This is the only one I have seen sewn on a jacket with the 709th. They may have been used by many of the gunners in the 447th or just a few air crews in the 709th. Good research project...

 

[Dr H]

Very...very fine looking Perry...
Any history associated with it?

 

[RCSignals]

Very...very fine looking Perry...
Any history associated with it?

It belonged to Pete, who was an aerial gunner in the 709th BS

 

[Dr H]

Beyond the obvious that is...
Thanks Sherlock

 

[dujardin]

sooooooo

my id was correct.

Johnny, you have your answer

byeeeeeeeeeee
marcel

 

[shedonwanna]

Very...very fine looking Perry...
Any history associated with it?

Pete Ackerman. The photo comes from Art of the Flight Jacket by Maguire and Conway pages 72-73. Back of jacket painted with B-17 "Barbara Jane".

 

[Dr H]

Thanks, I thought I'd seen it somewhere before.

 

[EMBLEMHUNTER]

O.K. I have a question about this jacket with the "winged Bullet" , if this was a Bombarment Group's patch , why Have I seen this emblem on the nose cowling of at least two different A-36 Apache/Invader aircraft ????????????????
One was serial number 283721, the other I could not get the serial# as the tail was not in the photo , it seems to me that this is more along the lines of a school type or a fighter replacement unit ,or gunnery school type .................

Anyone have other photo proof of this emblem being with the Bombardment Group possitively , it could have been on the jacket from the man's prior unit or he switched his missions from fighter to Bombers or vise versa .............

Johnny

 

[shedonwanna]

O.K. I have a question about this jacket with the "winged Bullet" , if this was a Bombarment Group's patch , why Have I seen this emblem on the nose cowling of at least two different A-36 Apache/Invader aircraft ????????????????
One was serial number 283721, the other I could not get the serial# as the tail was not in the photo , it seems to me that this is more along the lines of a school type or a fighter replacement unit ,or gunnery school type .................

Anyone have other photo proof of this emblem being with the Bombardment Group possitively , it could have been on the jacket from the man's prior unit or he switched his missions from fighter to Bombers or vise versa .............

Johnny

I have some e-mails out to some of my contacts in the 447th to see if this patch was used within the 447th. Don't know of any A-36 groups/squadrons that used this design. Like I said... "good research project".

 

[EMBLEMHUNTER]

The A-36's could have been base/C.O. "Hack" aircraft for whatever unit the specific "patch" was with , what really intrigues me is that I have seen it on the noses of at least two of them , they had to have had something to do with whatever unit it was to have been carrying the emblem on thier noses .

This is why I have been trying to find some good leads as to the ID of this one ........................................
Johnny

 

[EMBLEMHUNTER]

O.K. after doing a brief little bit of net searching, I found some info that may shed a "little light" on "possible" lead/s to this emblem, the Buckley Field Colorado did Armorer training for people going into Fighter aircraft, and Lowry Field Colorado did the same but for the "Bombers" , so this could be the "tie in" of both the A-36's and the "Bombers" , the school was Armament School #2 , so now all I need to do is find someone or photo documantation of this emblem in use there at one or the other fields , possibly both.

The emblem is most likely the "schools" design .......................................
Johnny

 

[EMBLEMHUNTER]

There's a magazine issue out right now on the stands titled "Mustangs" Volume 30 number#7 Winter 2011 and on page 40 there's a photo of an A-36A with this emblem on it's nose, so anyone wanting to see this photo check out your local book/magazine seller .

Johnny