Is this an Officer grade garrison cap?

[Andrew]

I read somewhere that after some particular date WWII USAAF officer piping was changed from ultramarine/ orange to black and gold for all services- Í'm probably wrong... So if it's true would this pass as an AAF Officers cap or is this yellow and black as opposed to gold? If if is ok what should I look for in WWII 1st or 2nd Lt bars? There appear to be heaps of variations but im sure many are post WWII. I'd like to finish off a 380thBG Summer uniform group that i'm thinking of lending to the McArthur Museum in Brisbane.

Jim or Corey?

Whilst on the subject, can anyone confirm- "US" or rank on right shirt collar and prop wings on left? Also 2" or 3" sterling wings? I have seen period shots of all of these options.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

Pinback LT bars, I'm sure the overseas cap was used throughout regardless of the change, 2" is shirt size only, but 3" embroidered or bullion or metal were used on shirts, 3" pinbacks a usually WW2 and are appropriate for Class A's, Ike Jacket, Flight Jackets, outer wear in general. Not etched in stone, but safe to assume.

 

[dmar836]

There is apparently a slightly smaller size Lt. bar for caps. Having never assembled a uniform from parts, I guess I had always assumed they were all the same size. Never really looked but was recently corrected.
Dave

 

[watchmanjimg]

Getting back to the original question I've never heard of the branch-of-service braid being worn by officers as this was exclusive to enlisted personnel--even in the prewar "campaign" hat. In any case your cap appears to be a typical officer's example.

As to the size of Army officer's rank insignia I'm unaware of an official distinction among insignia destined for wear on a cap or shirt as opposed to any other uniform component, and a quick review of original photos in the Stanton WW2 treatise suggests that full-size insignia were commonly worn on caps. However, the Navy and Marines (and later Air Force) definitely had smaller officer's rank insignia for wear on caps and shirts.

 

[dmar836]

Maybe I'm still confused and that was for ensign.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

Whenever I found an O overseas cap with rank, was always full size, also, officers collar wings and prop insignia.

 

[Andrew]

Thanks for all that guys. Ask the experts. Dave, you're lucky to find all that gear complete.

I was confused, just rechecked Silver Wings (he's a bit light on the subject) and gold and black was Officers and Ultra/orange for enlisted. I'll look for some pin back sterling bars then, one for cap, the other for the right collar. So was there any rule about wearing either rank or "US" on the right collar and for daily use in the field was it always done? I imagine they might have lost a lot of insignia with laundering, clips falling off etc. I can't determine from original shots i've seen.

I have some 2" wings so i'll use them, but I have seen 3 used. One last one, was there a minimum rank for Pilots- say 2nd Lt? In the Commonwealth Air Forces you could be a Sgt Pilot and be outranked by many of your crew.

I will post another cap in a few days after it arrives. It's a winter version. I really like the shape of this style, very cool looking and fits on the head much better than our old Sidecaps (in the RAAF cadets in the 70's we wore surplus WWII RAAF sidecaps). I've also read speculation that Brit made US caps tended to have taller ends more like the RAF style and that possibly influenced the evolution of the late war US cap.

 

[watchmanjimg]

So was there any rule about wearing either rank or "US" on the right collar and for daily use in the field was it always done? I imagine they might have lost a lot of insignia with laundering, clips falling off etc. I can't determine from original shots i've seen.

One last one, was there a minimum rank for Pilots- say 2nd Lt?

The US on right side/branch on left was common in the interwar period when officers wore rank on shirt epaulets, but for wartime I'd say the rank on right side/branch on left is the safer bet.

As to your last question I'm pretty sure there were at least some enlisted US pilots, likely assigned to fly small observation craft and such. There was also a Flight Officer rank equivalent to Warrant Officer, but I'm not sure if they actually served as pilots as opposed to bombardiers, etc.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

Warrant Officer Pilots, and a few enlisted pilots for service I think

 

[Andrew]

The Winter version arrived today, and it's making me wonder if the summer one really is actually yellow and black piping, but I know yellow is often referred to as gold. The piping on the Winter one is definitely made from shiny gold thread which is unfortunately hard to photograph and looks more like white but you can see the difference in the comparison shots.

I think I might try to find a Summer gold thread version just to be sure.

 

[watchmanjimg]

The Winter version arrived today, and it's making me wonder if the summer one really is actually yellow and black piping, but I know yellow is often referred to as gold. The piping on the Winter one is definitely made from shiny gold thread which is unfortunately hard to photograph and looks more like white but you can see the difference in the comparison shots.

I think I might try to find a Summer gold thread version just to be sure.

Andrew, I think there's nothing to worry about. I've reviewed my references and find no evidence of the yellow-and-black combination used to denote a branch of service. What you have there is a production variation. I'm sure there were many suppliers of braid, and some obviously used conventional gold thread instead of metallic as seen on your winter cap. I certainly encourage you to accumulate more caps, but not because you feel the braid on your khaki version is incorrect.