How about?

[Anonymous]

Olive drab knits on A-2s?

I see Japanese repros wearing them.
Were they original? Or the Japanese just fancy them?

Do you guys like them?

 

[deeb7]

They were not original, but perhaps sometimes used as available replacements.

I quite like them, but they're probably not as important as finding the seal brown HH.

 

[dujardin]

here follow 2 photos i found on an ebay listing some month ago.

those knits look civy too me

as David said, it was surely for some guy a way to repair his jacket. field modification.

byeeeeeeee marcel

 

[ties70]

Platon,

I like the idea of an A-2 with OD knits, and if tan knits would be available it would be nice, too....oh, and a dark, almost black seal brown....

But the point is:
How can your business run profitably AND keep the current price of 350 Euros if you offer too many options? Maybe this is the way to go:

- give us one leather option in two, maximum three different shades
- offer just one pattern, your generic house style
- knits in mid brown and reddish brown
- just one lining colour

Your market niche lies in the price segment, especially with the high-end repro makers here in Europe increasing their prices. When it comes to authenticity, there are other makers far ahead of you, so that market is "closed".

I do not see this as a problem, though. As I said, your advantage is the price segment, and if you can keep this level, there will definitely be customers.

I, for example, will definitely keep my money together and have your jacket on the wish list...an affordable jacket to use and abuse is exactly what I am looking for.

Best regards

Ties

 

[dujardin]

Do you guys like them?[/quote]


if field modified (original WW2 ), for sure i like.

this modification give a great look.
i already saw modif (only speaking about the knits) that catch my eyes.
1. without knits (as Al Jones)
2. sleeves lengthened by leather
3. with olive drab knits

now, other modif, an A2 with a warm lining as a B-15.
or also A2 with fur collar added and if i remember well i think i already saw an A2 with a hood.

yes all those modifs give great character to a jacket and i like that.

byeeeeeee marcel

 

[Tim P]

I dont think that is necessary. no real historical purpose and tan even is too rare as to be insignificant.
Offering a jacket without collar stand is as far as you need to go for now

 

[Anonymous]

I think it a little unfair Ties to say that the high end repro market is closed. Platon could make the level in time as have JC and Diamondback Dave. It takes time but is possible. High quailty one man companies need not be the preserve of the North Americans only

I see what you are saying about a house model with more authenticity than a Cooper or US Authentic but less costly than a GW or ELC and that might be the first step to get the name out there and get some currency in and i too would be ok with one of those jackets.

What I would say Platon is do not sell jackets until you are happy with the level of authenticity and quality as otherwise you will have jackets out there that do not represent your wares as your skills improve and get your hide selection spot-on if 1942 out of a box is your aim. Cheap hides, learn your craft and destroy your trials jackets or save them in your attic for posterity.


Dave

 

[delta102uk]

....think I would stick to mid brown Knits...I agree with Ties, being able to retail a decent quality A-2 repro for under £300 GBP is a major selling point and I for one would seriously consider buying one in dark seal (minus the collar stand). ...I'd be interested to know the all important dimensons of a size 42" and 44" ie pit to pit, shoulder width, and outside sleeve length??

Sean K

 

[Silver Dollar]

I wonder if they ever replaced the cuffs and waistband with wool parts from the B-10. I've got an A2 that was used in the CBI with the same type of replacements as the jacket in the picture. It definitely was a field modification.

 

[arclight]

I like Ties' assessment for Platon's merchandise to not compete with the high end repro guys; that market is way too expensive now, at least for me. ELC, Goodwear, Lost Worlds and Aero will always have well to do customers standing in line for their jackets.
Now we can all find fault with the "other" A-2 manufacturers but only because we know what to look for. My first A-2 was an Avirex lambskin with handwarmer and inside pocket and also had polyfill insulation. That was 1990 and until I got schooled up on U.S. flight jackets, you couldn't get me out of that jacket, I thought it was so cool. Now I have an Eastman and Lost Worlds A-2, both very authentic, etc.......but because of my investment I'm somewhat careful when wearing them. So much for real authenticity. We all know that USAAF personnel were not particularly careful with their jackets, wearing the stuffing out of them all the time in cramped aircraft and nasty weather.
So if Platon's firm could produce a quality somewhat authentic A-2 for a lot less money than ELC and GW, bring it on!
Platon: Limit your selection and take the advice of Jacket Head about marketing your wares "until you are happy with the level of authenticity and quality...............hide selection spot on"
I could compare this venture with "In 'n Out Burger", who I consider makes the best hamburger in Arizona and California. In 'n Out Burger's menu is comprised of a hamburger (with or without cheese), french fries, milk shakes and soda. That's it! They have a limited menu but a lot of folks think they are the best. Now, who started the fast food hamburger industry in the States? Discounting White Castle it was McDonalds. When McDonalds started offering breakfast meals, expanded their menu and bumped their prices, the quality went downhill. Here in Tucson, In 'n Out Burger performs a smack down on McDonalds taste wise and bang for the buck.
Moral of the story; offer one or two things made with quality, price it within the reach of the masses and success is yours.
Just my 2 cents.....................Best of Luck with your venture.
P.S.: Put me down for a dark seal HH as well!

 

[Tim P]

KISS
Keep
It
Simple
Stupid.
How many times have I heard that?
ELC started with their house, seal or russet, horse/ steer or goat and the rest has morphed.
You are sourcing good components from the look of it and if you choose rough grainly mismatched hide panels and offer a limited range of personalisations, zip type, hide colour collar type and the orders will start coming in.

 

[Roughwear]

They were not original, but perhaps sometimes used as available replacements.

I quite like them, but they're probably not as important as finding the seal brown HH.

I used to own an original RW (probably a factory second) with original OD knits. They are seen on some civilian A2s as well but not on issued jackets.

 

[Anonymous]

Platon,

I like the idea of an A-2 with OD knits, and if tan knits would be available it would be nice, too....oh, and a dark, almost black seal brown....

But the point is:
How can your business run profitably AND keep the current price of 350 Euros if you offer too many options? Maybe this is the way to go:

- give us one leather option in two, maximum three different shades
- offer just one pattern, your generic house style
- knits in mid brown and reddish brown
- just one lining colour

Your market niche lies in the price segment, especially with the high-end repro makers here in Europe increasing their prices. When it comes to authenticity, there are other makers far ahead of you, so that market is "closed".

I do not see this as a problem, though. As I said, your advantage is the price segment, and if you can keep this level, there will definitely be customers.

I, for example, will definitely keep my money together and have your jacket on the wish list...an affordable jacket to use and abuse is exactly what I am looking for.

Best regards

Ties

The OD knits, had nothing to do with Billk Kelso jackets. It was a question out of personal interest.

-Ref colours my goal is for 3 shades, russet, dark seal brown and medium (choc) brown.
-Pattern, initially the house pattern will be offered and then will consider adding 1 or 2 original patterns (if dictated by popular demand).
-Knits will be mid brown (as per photos in BK site) , but if customer provides other color will gladly use that.
-Lining color, we can offer two no problem. Mustard brown always subject to availability.

Agree that the high end repro makers are way ahead of BK. It was never my intention to compete with them.
The original intention was to offer a descent good quality repro to accomodate those of us with lower budget.

I dont think that is necessary. no real historical purpose and tan even is too rare as to be insignificant.
Offering a jacket without collar stand is as far as you need to go for now,
Tim P

The jacket without collar stand is one of the next steps.

I think it a little unfair Ties to say that the high end repro market is closed. Platon could make the level in time as have JC and Diamondback Dave. It takes time but is possible. High quailty one man companies need not be the preserve of the North Americans only

I see what you are saying about a house model with more authenticity than a Cooper or US Authentic but less costly than a GW or ELC and that might be the first step to get the name out there and get some currency in and i too would be ok with one of those jackets.

What I would say Platon is do not sell jackets until you are happy with the level of authenticity and quality as otherwise you will have jackets out there that do not represent your wares as your skills improve and get your hide selection spot-on if 1942 out of a box is your aim. Cheap hides, learn your craft and destroy your trials jackets or save them in your attic for posterity.

Dave

Guys, it could be possible to make high end jackets comparable to those of the high end makers, but then it will not be possible to keep the price at low levels and I wouldn't want to increase the price.

Regarding authenticity, the BK jacket was designed to offer far greater authenticity than any other cheap repro jacket.


Thanks for all your comments guys, and are always open to suggestions for improvement.


Regards,

 

[Andrew]

I love the idea of a cheap but credible option however I'm not a fan of the idea of doing a house style of jacket- personally (and sorry if it offends) but I feel it's just another mall type franken jacket.

I suspect if there was a choice between a house style no name and say a convincing attempt at one of the more popular contracts (say Dubow without collar stand) that would sell far more readily. I'd be looking at which of the contracts was deemed more popular and would focus on that. Do a poll on this site and you'd get a fair idea.

At least i'd buy one of those over a non specific maker pattern.

 

[ties70]

I love the idea of a cheap but credible option however I'm not a fan of the idea of doing a house style of jacket.... I'd be looking at which of the contracts was deemed more popular and would focus on that. Do a poll on this site and you'd get a fair idea.

At least i'd buy one of those over a non specific maker pattern.

Andrew,

I see your point, but don't you think that with a poll we will end up with pretty much the same jackets that are already available...? I am sure that the list will have amongst the Top 5...

- Dubow 27798
- RW 27753
- AERO 15142

...which are all available from other makers

Ties

 

[Anonymous]

I love the idea of a cheap but credible option however I'm not a fan of the idea of doing a house style of jacket- personally (and sorry if it offends) but I feel it's just another mall type franken jacket.

I suspect if there was a choice between a house style no name and say a convincing attempt at one of the more popular contracts (say Dubow without collar stand) that would sell far more readily. I'd be looking at which of the contracts was deemed more popular and would focus on that. Do a poll on this site and you'd get a fair idea.

At least i'd buy one of those over a non specific maker pattern.

Andrew

Andrew, noted yours, but the BK jacket should not be taken as a cheap alternative for those wanting a high end jacket but as a better alternative for those who are considering a cheap jacket.

I can assure you that the BK is far better than any of the following

Flightsuits (G&B)
Avirex/Cockpit
US Wings/Cooper
US Athentic
Alpha

(Do not take this from me as a vendor, but as a jacket fan).

And although a house design, incorporates all the features found in originals, while the above don't.

Making a jacket using the pattern of an actual existing contract is a natural development for the future.

 

[Tim P]

with that chocolate brown leather, make a poughkeepsie!!!!

 

[Andrew]

Hmmm. almost convinced me for a minute Chaps, however....

I'm pretty sure i'm not alone but my repro scenario is something like this;
- If I was totally flush and impervious to the effects of the ongoing GFC i'd step up and get another GW
- If I had a little less i'd buy a second hand GW
- Next on the list i'd consider a second hand ELC but I don't like the leather so i'd just keep hanging on for a 2nd HGW.
- Further down I wouldn't buy anything and would wait until I could afford option 1

If I really had a scratch to itch and there was a repro with good grainy leather and that had some of the handmade knocked together qualities that JC's managed to keep in his and that are apparent in orginals made with good fittings to a specific contract and a dash of love for under $400 I could well be tempted. :lol:

I like Tim's suggestion- one of the popular but not yet made contracts. For me it would have to be a trim style with a tailored collar without collar stand though. Nothing baggy and no rounded collars.