Eastman 1933 Werber Observation

[B-Man2]

I just received my new Eastman 1933 Werber A2 and while I love the color of the HH, the trim cut of the jacket and the color of the knits, I have to say that I'm definitely not satisfied with the thickness of the the HH that Eastman used in making this jacket.

I know this subject has been beat to death, but I'll never believe that with everything that air crews put these jackets through, that a jacket with this thin of a horse hide would have held up and not torn apart over a short period of time. The constant climbing in and out of cockpits, sliding through confined spaces inside of bombers and the general abuse that the A2 was put through would certainly tear apart this particular jacket today.

I love the jacket but a little thicker Horse hide would make it perfect. If anyone has purchased one lately I would appreciate your thoughts pro or con of my opinion.

Regards
B-Man2

 

[havocpaul]

I know it might appear to be thinner than other contracts but from what I experienced with mine it was still as tough as old boots, it is horsehide after all! Originals also differed in thickness, I had an original United Sheeplined that was noticably thicker than my Aero.

 

[Persimmon]

I have the Eastman Werber and like you love the colour,trim, knits etc.
Now whilst your comments are valid about the thickness - its certainly more summer than winter, they did copy it stitch by stitch from an original and I do think the latest Warhouse hide is superb.
However in answer to your point about it surviving the rough and tumble that aircrews put it through are you talking WW2 ?
Remember this is a vintage 1933 jacket and planes were smaller and there was no war at the time. I have a A1 and its Capeskin. This was an improvement in thickness and toughness.
I do have an Goodwear 39 Werber and its as thick as hell and could be used to patch up thre flaks holes on a B17 if needed !!
Which is best ?
Well I prefer the Eastman.
I hope you can look past the thickness as its a beautiful jacket. Good luck

 

[B-Man2]

I agree with most of the comments listed however, Alan ;

I don't think that because the jacket was produced during a pre-war period that air crews utilized the jacket with any less intensity than they would have during the war. They would still be responding to drills climbing in and out of aircraft, straping it down in cockpits and under parachute harnesses as if in war time, wouldn't they?
Regards
B-Man2

 

[Persimmon]

Good point although I think it looks a lot less hectic in the photos of those days.
Without being there to prove it you may well be right.
I still think the Warhouse is a strong HH and perfect for the job in question.
Equally I am never going to war and jump into a B17/24 every day- second day etc.
Remember its peace time now so for me its just spot on for my hectic/non hectic lifestyle and it looks so good when it has been beaten around a bit.
However if I am assigned to the Bomber in wartime I'll wear my Goodwear 39 Werber !!

 

[deeb7]

... They would still be responding to drills climbing in and out of aircraft, straping it down in cockpits and under parachute harnesses as if in war time, wouldn't they?

I haven't seen this new horsehide, but I'm sure it would be adequate for these activities ... I wouldn't like to try, and tear it.

Personally I like the drape of these thinner hides, as seen in some of Danny's early Muroc photos.

viewtopic.php?p=54277#p54277

 

[bseal]

ELC is good, but yes, come to think of it, never yet held one of their A-2s that was made out of a particularly thick or dense hide. Depends on taste I guess.

 

[asiamiles]

Remember this is a vintage 1933 jacket and planes were smaller and there was no war at the time. I have a A1 and its Capeskin. This was an improvement in thickness and toughness.

Indeed, the Weber was the successor to the A-1, so it makes sense to me that it mightn't have been made from a particularly thick hide. I wonder if if the pilots of the day considered the A-1 inadequate for the purpose it was intended for?

 

[Falcon_52]

I understand the concern over the 3 oz hide but I have to say: I spent 2 weeks flight testing on a KC-135 (I know this is a cold war aircraft not a B-10) this month and wore my Eastman Werber A-2 everyday. The jacket performed great. I crawled up and down the crew hatch, crawled down in the refuel boom operator's station and had to get in the equipment rack. I got some bumps and scrapes but the jacket never let me down.

In my mind, going to a 4 oz jacket isn't really necessary and may just make the jacket a little less comfortable to wear; to each his own, though.

Noel

 

[269sqnhudson]

I just received my new Eastman 1933 Werber A2 and while I love the color of the HH, the trim cut of the jacket and the color of the knits, I have to say that I'm definitely not satisfied with the thickness of the the HH that Eastman used in making this jacket.

I know this subject has been beat to death, but I'll never believe that with everything that air crews put these jackets through, that a jacket with this thin of a horse hide would have held up and not torn apart over a short period of time. The constant climbing in and out of cockpits, sliding through confined spaces inside of bombers and the general abuse that the A2 was put through would certainly tear apart this particular jacket today.

I love the jacket but a little thicker Horse hide would make it perfect. If anyone has purchased one lately I would appreciate your thoughts pro or con of my opinion.

Regards
B-Man2

I've got two points to make that should help. Firstly, as with your Werber, my ELC Star feels thin, however as the stiffness dropped out with wear it became easy to see that the key to its durability is in its flexibility and strength, not its thickness.
Moreover period photos of pilots often show a drape and rumpling indicative of thin, flexible hide. As you wear your Werber and it loses its stiffness you will feel the strength and durability of the leather and will trust it more.

 

[Roughwear]

Warhorse leather varies in thickness depending on the batches used. My Werber is a similar thickness to several originals in my collection, especially the Star and two Poughkeepsies.

 

[B-Man2]

I'm sure that over a period of time I'll begin to appreciate the thinner HH of the Eastman Werber. I've been spoiled by a couple of Good Wears that I own and I expected the Eastman Werber to be of a similar thickness.
I do like the look and fit of the ELC Werber.
Thanks for all of your responses.

Burt
(B-Man2)

 

[Peter Graham]

Have you ever felt how thin some original horsehide A-2's are yet they are still with us over sixty years later. Relax and enjoy your jacket. Thin horsehide is a bonus in my book.

 

[zoomer]

The thinness of the hide is a plus in my book. Thick horsey is the rule - this can be worn more months out of the year. Or could if my 1729 actually fit me.

 

[airfrogusmc]

Paul Sanders had an original 1933 Werber. In fact I think Gary bought the one he had and it was a bit on the heavier side but not real heavy IIRC. Maybe a bit more than 3oz. Hide weight varied a lot on originals even from the same contract heck sometimes even on the same jacket.

 

[Roughwear]

Paul Sanders had an original 1933 Werber. In fact I think Gary bought the one he had and it was a bit on the heavier side but not real heavy IIRC. Maybe a bit more than 3oz. Hide weight varied a lot on originals even from the same contract heck sometimes even on the same jacket.

Your comments on the leather of originals are spot on. I wonder what that original Werber set Gary back? Early-mid 30s A2s hardly ever seem to come up for sale on the open market these days.

 

[nogbat]

check out the elc monarch,i had one for a while it was a plastic jacket ,very thin and just not very good at all. it went on e.bay in the end .. it was supposed to be horse hide.not impressed so elc new rw had better be good ,,, i hope so.

 

[Roughwear]

check out the elc monarch,i had one for a while it was a plastic jacket ,very thin and just not very good at all. it went on e.bay in the end .. it was supposed to be horse hide.not impressed so elc new rw had better be good ,,, i hope so.

Again it depends on the batch of hh used. My first ELC Monarch was much as you describe, but the one I currently own is much better with grainy areas and is no plastic jacket!