Approaching Ethical Issues with Repros

[dmar836]

Just wondering how many have considered the possibility that in 20 years it may be difficult to distinguish one of the better A-2(or any other design) jackets from originals. This may not matter to those who collect only repros for wear but from what I've seen in the collector's world, it is likely happening already. The Chinese are pumping out goggles, gloves, you name it, and some, with some mods, are really, really good.
Though falsely aging a $1000 A-2 is likely not the preference of a quick-profit scammer now, with prices fetching several times that for decorated pieces, it is likely to happen soon. It's already predicted that 85+% of Nazi SS collectibles changing hands are fakes - even many found in prestigious museums. Big demand - fakes will soon follow.
I think of the guy caught faking "authenticated" Babe Ruth baseballs at $10,000 apiece. He made a mint and it took a long while, insider tips, and a sting to catch him. The quality of the materials/aging job was not the tip-off if I recall.
Ideas, feelings? Just fodder for conversation maybe already discussed,
Dave
Kansas City, USA

 

[EMBLEMHUNTER]

I agree, it's pretty much that way with a lot of "collectables" too many have been reproduced and if you don't do the research I'm sure there will be many that will get taken, it's just one of those things I hate to say that makes the world go around, it isn't right but it will happen.

Unless the jackets have a very specific tag/mark stating they're repros then it will be that much the easier, and even with the mark/tag if they're not in a place where they can be seen/found or removed it can still happen.

The buyers just really need to do the research and as the best way to go if you get that "uneasy" feeling about an item,PASS you'll probably be that much the better for it .

Live and learn.

 

[Weasel_Loader]

This subject has come up many times before and does warrant some interest. Here's my take.

I'll never be against the repro makers from making better and better looking accurate reproductions. As long as there is a sucker born every minute, there will be someone out to make a buck off those people. The German WW2 militaria collecting circles are rife with fakes and they get better and better every year. No way I'd venture into that market. I guess it just comes down to really knowing your hobby if your going after an authentic collectible, especially when your forking over hundreds or even thousands of dollars.

 

[dmar836]

I guess I should clarify that I am in no way against the repros. I absolutely love the good ones and doing it right is the only way for me.
What about a brand inside a pocket that cannot be seen unless it is really looked for? I would hate to have to see such "non-authentic" things done but it's just the way the world is. If there is never the intent to sell a jacket on the market as period, surely there is some distinction we could agree upon.
Didn't someone on here suggest that WPG always has a little something on their repro items that discourages them from being passed off as authentic?
Sorry to bring up an old topic,
Dave
Kansas City, USA

 

[CBI]

I am certain some "worn" repros will come up for sale as originals in time. We will just have to keep our eyes open and help other members out.

 

[bobbyball]

The only way to be really sure is doing the research and establishing the provenance.

The really big money is in named decorated jackets. Although, if someone knows what they are doing, easy to cobble something together from original components, these are very recognisable items and generate a lot of interest when they do become available. A reputable dealer/collector will have the history of how he came by the jacket. If not, then they will not bring seriously high bids unless someone takes a punt and forgets their head.

There is a lot of crap around about 'a vet purchase' and 'bought directly from the family'. Yard sales (come on!!!!!!) If the vet is still alive, and I doubt it, would he really sell and if so there should be a wealth of info available on the guy.

My original 306th jacket (the one I wore to Duxford) checks out in every respect. I have the pilots records and know how many hands it has passed through since the mid-1980s. I had someone pose as the pilots brother in order to try and get the jacket from me. I amused them by asking some simple questions about his brother and he knew less than I did!

Plain A-2s are another story but any reputable seller will be more than willing to help a potential buyer. Sending detailed photos or if possible allow a potential purchaser to view the jacket in person. I like many have been stung but a lot of it is my fault – too trusting and lacking in knowledge in the early days. It’s always best to be completely suspicious of everything – that way you can never be disappointed. Forums like this are an invaluable source of info and I am really pleased that they are around. Do your homework and use the internet and archival information that is out there and you should be OK.

 

[TankBuster]

The only way to be really sure is doing the research and establishing the provenance.

The really big money is in named decorated jackets. Although, if someone knows what they are doing, easy to cobble something together from original components, these are very recognisable items and generate a lot of interest when they do become available. A reputable dealer/collector will have the history of how he came by the jacket. If not, then they will not bring seriously high bids unless someone takes a punt and forgets their head.

There is a lot of crap around about 'a vet purchase' and 'bought directly from the family'. Yard sales (come on!!!!!!) If the vet is still alive, and I doubt it, would he really sell and if so there should be a wealth of info available on the guy.

My original 306th jacket (the one I wore to Duxford) checks out in every respect. I have the pilots records and know how many hands it has passed through since the mid-1980s. I had someone pose as the pilots brother in order to try and get the jacket from me. I amused them by asking some simple questions about his brother and he knew less than I did!

Plain A-2s are another story but any reputable seller will be more than willing to help a potential buyer. Sending detailed photos or if possible allow a potential purchaser to view the jacket in person. I like many have been stung but a lot of it is my fault – too trusting and lacking in knowledge in the early days. It’s always best to be completely suspicious of everything – that way you can never be disappointed. Forums like this are an invaluable source of info and I am really pleased that they are around. Do your homework and use the internet and archival information that is out there and you should be OK.

You would be suprised how many family members are willing to sell their fathers "Old War Junk"
as they put it. I have to admit to buying some groupings from just this situation. I look at is as: if they don't care enough about the jacket and or other items to keep them, then they are better off with me. I had a contact that would put me in touch with families that had contacted him wanting to sell, and then would pay him a finders fee.

The sad fact is that there are plenty of families and even vets that sell off their items. I do agree however that the term is over used, especially on Ebay. My favorite is "Fresh from a Estate sale"

 

[269sqnhudson]

The only way to be really sure is doing the research and establishing the provenance.

The really big money is in named decorated jackets. Although, if someone knows what they are doing, easy to cobble something together from original components, these are very recognisable items and generate a lot of interest when they do become available. A reputable dealer/collector will have the history of how he came by the jacket. If not, then they will not bring seriously high bids unless someone takes a punt and forgets their head.

There is a lot of crap around about 'a vet purchase' and 'bought directly from the family'. Yard sales (come on!!!!!!) If the vet is still alive, and I doubt it, would he really sell and if so there should be a wealth of info available on the guy.

My original 306th jacket (the one I wore to Duxford) checks out in every respect. I have the pilots records and know how many hands it has passed through since the mid-1980s. I had someone pose as the pilots brother in order to try and get the jacket from me. I amused them by asking some simple questions about his brother and he knew less than I did!

Plain A-2s are another story but any reputable seller will be more than willing to help a potential buyer. Sending detailed photos or if possible allow a potential purchaser to view the jacket in person. I like many have been stung but a lot of it is my fault – too trusting and lacking in knowledge in the early days. It’s always best to be completely suspicious of everything – that way you can never be disappointed. Forums like this are an invaluable source of info and I am really pleased that they are around. Do your homework and use the internet and archival information that is out there and you should be OK.

You would be suprised how many family members are willing to sell their fathers "Old War Junk"
as they put it. I have to admit to buying some groupings from just this situation. I look at is as: if they don't care enough about the jacket and or other items to keep them, then they are better off with me. I had a contact that would put me in touch with families that had contacted him wanting to sell, and then would pay him a finders fee.

The sad fact is that there are plenty of families and even vets that sell off their items. I do agree however that the term is over used, especially on Ebay. My favorite is "Fresh from a Estate sale"

I don't think it's necessarily a bad reflection on families or veterans if they choose to sell certain things. For the veteran I'm not at all surprised, I think they may well often view it as 'war junk'. In the case of families it can be similar I'm sure. Not everyone views objects as history. I caught my Dad throwing out his England rugby shirts last year and I mean the one's he played for England in! He said they were a bit mildewed and grubby so he was binning them. Needless to say I have them now. For him they are just shirts, for me they are part of him and his history.

 

[EMBLEMHUNTER]

Some of the veterans may decide to sell the items as they know they will pass on and would rather see a "True Colllector" get them than a familiy member who may trash it or disrespect the history of it, or they may not have or know of a museum that would take it in on donation and figure at least a "collector" appreciates it's historical signifgance !

Some "museums" you can't trust with items either, another reason a vet might sell is if he needs some quick $$$, not all the vets are well off and they know a good A-2/G-1 or better uniforms/medals can turn some good amounts now days !!!!!

 

[Silver Dollar]

Some of the veterans may decide to sell the items as they know they will pass on and would rather see a "True Colllector" get them than a familiy member who may trash it or disrespect the history of it, or they may not have or know of a museum that would take it in on donation and figure at least a "collector" appreciates it's historical signifgance !

Some "museums" you can't trust with items either, another reason a vet might sell is if he needs some quick $$$, not all the vets are well off and they know a good A-2/G-1 or better uniforms/medals can turn some good amounts now days !!!!!

You nailed it EH. The A2's in my collection except for one or two came directly from the hands of the veterans themselves. A large portion of my patient load at pretty much each base I was stationed at was retirees. A good portion of that number were WWII fliers who were only happy to give or sell their memorabilia to someone they knew would preserve the articles and show them the respect they deserved. A lot of them didn't want to pass them down to younger family members because they had no interest in them and they couldn't be assured that precious possessions wouldn't be sold, destroyed or worse, discarded into the trash pile. I also learned that many museums sell off a number of pieces to get ahold of pieces they really want. They also don't display everything they have.