A-2's in captivity.

[Andrew]

The comment you often see that flight jackets were always confiscated from new Prisoners of War is obviously not entirely correct as seen in these shots of POW's at Stalag Luft1 Barth. Interesting to see that with a poor diet the fit is almost without exception now baggy.

Group 17 - South Compound - Block 3
In the second row from the front, right to left, number 3 is Roy Braly, number 4 is Clint Gruber, and number 5 is Bob Wilkins

William E. Griffin (Tuskegee Airman) - back row 4th from left.

Group 48
William E. Griffin (Tuskegee Airman) - standing far left

 

[Andrew]

The comment you often see that flight jackets were always confiscated from new Prisoners of War is obviously not entirely correct as seen in these shots of POW's at Stalag Luft1 Barth.

Yeah? Well most of those guys would have had a flight Jacket when they left the plane so at least 90% went missing...

 

[Andrew]

I did say "always". That was meant to qualify it. :roll:


Aside from some obscure whiteish flecks it also looks like none of these have patches or insignia. Does anyone know any history about this? I wonder if they had to remove them...

In all the other shots I couldn't find any evidence of fleece jackets so presumably they didn't make it into camp. So much for the image of Hogans Heroes.

 

[Chandler]

Well, there's a picture of one of the Doolittle Raiders in the recent book, The First Heroes, in the captivity of the Japanese and wearing an obvious B-3. Thing is, look at the portraits of each crew on the Hornet that John has linked at GoodWear -- not a one in a B-3!

Might just be that it's too warm in the pics above (and it is just one camp, no?)

Chandler

 

[hacker]

I don't see why most sheepskin jackets would not have made it into camp. But frankly they aren't very comfortable so if it's not cold why would you wear it?

 

[Atticus]

Check out the guy in the front center of the bottom photo. He probably didn't think his B-3 would match the shorts he was wearing that day.

AF

 

[Andrew]

Well done you all passed. Sorry, gotta admit I was just testing to see if anyone was listening.

Here's the link to the site, if you're interested in Kriegie life it gives a really good picture. As spotted most of the shots on the site were taken in outside in fair weather.

http://www.merkki.com/photo.htm

 

[Chandler]

As spotted most of the shots on the site were taken in outside in fair weather.

Outside in winter and the "guests" probably would have looked miserable - think Stalag 17. Wouldn't want the man from Geneva to see that!

Chandler

 

[Anonymous]

There's a lot of the mechanics wool kit hats and even a few of the peaked Jeep (Radar) hats. Do you think that they were post capture distributed by the Red Cross or would the aircrew have generally flown with them in a pocket just in case ?

J_H

 

[dujardin]

William E. Griffin (Tuskegee Airman) - back row 4th from left.

did you notice that the guys 4th from left have no knits or knits reverse into the sleeve ????
i like this way where you don't see the knits.

byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

marcel

 

[Jaydee]

Why are they all smiling? It can't be that much fun there! I heard the 40's was a fun time to be alive, but this is rediculous. Maybe they are happy just to be alive after being shot down and captured.
-Jay

 

[Swing]

Aside from some obscure whiteish flecks it also looks like none of these have patches or insignia. Does anyone know any history about this? I wonder if they had to remove them...

It's been my observation that flight gear that was actually worn in combat wasn't very often decorated with patches or nose art, at least in the ETO. Most Americans shot down over Europe had a physical appearance that would let them blend in with the populace. There was no point in sporting a decorated jacket that shouts "Hey, I'm an American!" while trying to evade long enough to get into civillian cloths.

Looking at those photos, if all those guys are flyers, I'd say most had their flight gear taken away and were issued M-41 field jackets via the Red Cross.

~Swing

 

[Swing]

Why are they all smiling?

Because they've probably just been liberated, or know they will be soon.

~Swing

 

[Jaydee]

Why are they all smiling?

Because they've probably just been liberated, or know they will be soon.

~Swing

Yeah, your probably right. They are thinking of all those 40's vixens gonna give 'em a heros' welcome! They deserve it!
-Jay

 

[Jaydee]

Aside from some obscure whiteish flecks it also looks like none of these have patches or insignia. Does anyone know any history about this? I wonder if they had to remove them...

It's been my observation that flight gear that was actually worn in combat wasn't very often decorated with patches or nose art, at least in the ETO. Most Americans shot down over Europe had a physical appearance that would let them blend in with the populace. There was no point in sporting a decorated jacket that shouts "Hey, I'm an American!" while trying to evade long enough to get into civillian cloths.

~Swing

That is an interesting idea! It makes good sense to me, with the modern CWU flight jackets and flight suits the guys put on velcro patches so, among other things, they can rip all that crap (..Err...I mean cool colorful patches) off after bail out. Probably not a good idea to go sporting your rank on your shoulders after bailing either.Here's a thought: Maybe all of those clean A-2s you see with no patch holes and no art are the real combat worn jackets, and all of those patched, painted up ones that bring so much more money were mere "show" jackets for the most part. No missions flown in them, no danger, no mistique, or good luck associated with them. A souvenier for photos or a night on the town. Not much more significant than a patched up repro (Not that there's anything wrong with patched up repro Jackets ) Kinda of an amusing idea don't cha think?
-Jay

 

[Swing]

That is an interesting idea! It makes good sense to me, with the modern CWU flight jackets and flight suits the guys put on velcro patches so, among other things, they can rip all that crap (..Err...I mean cool colorful patches) off after bail out. Probably not a good idea to go sporting your rank on your shoulders after bailing either.Here's a thought: Maybe all of those clean A-2s you see with no patch holes and no art are the real combat worn jackets, and all of those patched, painted up ones that bring so much more money were mere "show" jackets for the most part. No missions flown in them, no danger, no mistique, or good luck associated with them. A souvenier for photos or a night on the town. Not much more significant than a patched up repro (Not that there's anything wrong with patched up repro Jackets ) Kinda of an amusing idea don't cha think?
-Jay

I don't think it's very far from the truth. Look at pictures of fighter pilots in the 8th and 9th AF. One out of 40 or 50 guys has something more than a name strip on his jacket? Look at officers on bomber crews, again you don't see many wearing anything more than a name strip on their jackets. The guys that do have heavily decorated A-2s in the ETO are enlisted men on heavy bomber crews. And since they were in colder positions in the plane, you know they were wearing electric flight suits and/or sheepskin rather than A-2s.

You see a lot of decorated jackets in the 15th AF, but then you have to look at when the 15th was in combat. The 15th started to expand in early '44, about the time the F-2 electric suit, and the B-10 came out. And the F-3 came out shortly after that. A-2s would have been left on the ground by most guys.

Decorated jacket in China or the Pacific? Doesn't matter, a 5'10", 22 year old white guy is going to stick out, no matter what is on his jacket.

~Swing

 

[TankBuster]

I tend to disagree about the patching/painting of jackets.
I believe that early war flyers tended not patch or paint their
jackets that often, but by late '43 early '44 that seemed
to change and it was done fairly often. Although artwork
did seem to be added towards the end of a tour in alot of cases.
Especially the painted bombs. I have quite a few patched and/or
painted jackets in my collection with wartime pictures of them
being worn with the art and patches on the jacket. I have had
the pleasure to speak with many of these guys who stated they
did wear them in combat patched and painted.
There are whole fighter squadrons in the 8th and 9th that would
patch and paint their jackets the same.
The Thunder Bums
The Panzer Dusters
Most of the 405th painted their home states names on their backs.
As far as bomber squadrons
The Ball Boys all had paintings with Ball incorporated in the name.
The 401st BG were famous for and took great pride in the fact that
they extravegantly painted the backs of their A-2's
The list could go on and on.