First off, I am NOT the watch expert so please add to this thread if you wish. Hopefully though, this will stop the slow bleed of junk watches being sold as authentic military timepieces. This info is for those wanting their first WWII A-11, not for those looking for variants or those "exceptions to the rule". Please remember this. This is for the basic, commonly available A-11. My knowledge goes no further.
Elgin, Bulova, and Waltham all made the A-11 and are the most common. Longines made some early on, maybe others, but that's beyond the scope of this thread.
These makers share the same features as indicated in the contract (just like makers of A-2s). Certainly there is a blurry line in actual use where RAF and civilian watches were used in the air, however, many sellers advertize "WWII watch", "pilot's watch", or "military watch" just because all 12 numerals are printed, it has a black dial, or because of the presence of lume. Many makers advertized "Military Watch" or "Service Watch" in their wartime flyers. These were certainly bought as gifts to service men and had the proper look BUT if it does not meet the following specs, it is not a true A-11. Ordinance watches for ground forces is another story.
Some of the basic things to look for that apparently trip many up:
Movements:
Elgin: movement marked "539" (with black gears)
Bulova: movement marked "10AK" (in a rectangle often partially hidden by sprockets)
Waltham: movement marked 6/0 B
If the movement is one of these makers but without these markings, even if a higher end movement that fits, it is NOT an A-11 movement.
Crystals were domed and plexi. These yellow over time but replacements are cheap.
Dials and Hands:
Black dial (earlier versions had white)
Not lumed - there was no "glow in the dark feature"
No maker on dial (this was a spec for the contract). I have seen them blacked out and I believe this is okay.
60 second tic numerals only on the 10s
Do I need to mention there was no date function?
There were hands specified. White but black at the base and not lumed. They are tapered as in the photo below. An incorrect replacement sweep second hand is easily seen on this one.
Beware of a dial and hands that are either way too bright or that do not match in patina(as in the replacement second hand example below). Regular service ensured the occasionally replaced part, sometimes even with the incorrect one, but it could be the first indication of a watch made recently from a jumble of parts.
Cases:
Many watches were re-cased after the war when watches were pricey but a refit wasn't.
As far as issued cases, there were basically two types:
First, the waterproof case. Has a two stepped appearance with an 8-sided screw-on back:
Secondly, the dust proof case had a knurled front and back. Both were removable:
Of special note - from my limited experience, the dials for these two types of cases are NOT interchangeable. The dust proof dial is > 1" and the waterproof dial is <1".
The cases were plated brass, plated "base metal", and stainless steel. Sterling cases are mentioned but are certainly not common and may be a supply variation. The backs were of the same materials but the majority are stainless steel.
There are replacement cases made. They are not out there retail but are in circulation. I do not believe these to be WWII era. The white-faced Elgin above(not an A-11) is in such a dustproof case. It measures slightly larger than the original next to it. The movements fit with a spacer(perfectly normal) but the case backs are not marked.
A big thing to look out for is worn pin holes. This will render the case useless but they still sell.
Markings:
The markings on back are usually stamped but I do think later in the war there was some engraving done. If so, it will NOT be sloppy. Just look at a bunch of pics online so you'll know when one doesn't look right.
As previously mentioned, there should be no maker markings on the face.
Bands: There were many variants. The cotton bands are most popular and available in one or two-piece. These were in a twill or in a poplin weave. It was likely later in the war when a nylon version was available for tropical climates. I've only read of these. Most seen are VN era. Nickle and brass buckles and grommets were common as well as the stitch-reinforced holes. Also available were leather bands. I have heard A-11s were actually issued with leather bands with the optional PX cotton bands available and also the other way around. I tend to think the latter.
As these are mechanical time pieces, they are frequently serviced. Back then, every one year was recommended. With today's synthetic lubes, you can go three, five, or more years. Service time was the ideal time to have a part replaced so different hands, crystals, crowns, etc show up often. Hoping to find an untouched watch with an original band is hopeful indeed.
Buying:
The above list is certainly not exhaustive BUT stay within it and you will likely end up with a true A-11 watch without paying $250+ from a dealer.
Once you find one that appears legit, consider how it runs. Fast, slow, inconsistently, or not at all. Most often they are in need of a cleaning. When you are dealing with a "watch guy", it will likely be running and be for sale for a premium. Others cannibalize watches or build a mongrel out of many different watches. These are called "Ebay Specials" and are an avenue for many, many parts watches.
To me though, the ones to look for are not from a watch guy, is shown without the back off as the seller doesn't know how to take the back off. Hopefully they state it will run only for a while. These are least likely to be messed with and likely just need the cleaning. Do check immediately, though, to ensure the proper movement and all the parts are inside! Then look to get it cleaned.
Servicing:
If you bought it for a collection, it will not get worse by not cleaning it now. But if you plan to wear it at all, I would start with a cleaning and assessment. This can be a problem. When getting these cleaned, if the quote is $50-60, don't do it! It will be a short job and not hardly done right. Running them only partially lubed will only wear out the unserviced pivots and jewels as they are likely dry. Ask what all will be done. This job takes even an experienced watch smith several hours so expect to pay for his time. If they say, "it's overwound" just walk away as they simply do not wish to work on your watch. They know they can make more servicing Rolex, etc. and not a salty, vintage $75 watch for which parts can no longer be ordered. A qualified watch maker can be hard to find as this is a dying field. I would consider some of the guys online who specialize in military watches but do yourself a favor and learn a little about your watch first so you know what is being done and what repairs make sense.
IME, buying parts of A-11s hoping to get one nice one is futile. It can be done but good ones are still out there complete so kinda makes that serviced $185 A-11 on Ebay sound good doesn't it?
Dave
Elgin, Bulova, and Waltham all made the A-11 and are the most common. Longines made some early on, maybe others, but that's beyond the scope of this thread.
These makers share the same features as indicated in the contract (just like makers of A-2s). Certainly there is a blurry line in actual use where RAF and civilian watches were used in the air, however, many sellers advertize "WWII watch", "pilot's watch", or "military watch" just because all 12 numerals are printed, it has a black dial, or because of the presence of lume. Many makers advertized "Military Watch" or "Service Watch" in their wartime flyers. These were certainly bought as gifts to service men and had the proper look BUT if it does not meet the following specs, it is not a true A-11. Ordinance watches for ground forces is another story.
Some of the basic things to look for that apparently trip many up:
Movements:
Elgin: movement marked "539" (with black gears)
Bulova: movement marked "10AK" (in a rectangle often partially hidden by sprockets)
Waltham: movement marked 6/0 B
If the movement is one of these makers but without these markings, even if a higher end movement that fits, it is NOT an A-11 movement.
Crystals were domed and plexi. These yellow over time but replacements are cheap.
Dials and Hands:
Black dial (earlier versions had white)
Not lumed - there was no "glow in the dark feature"
No maker on dial (this was a spec for the contract). I have seen them blacked out and I believe this is okay.
60 second tic numerals only on the 10s
Do I need to mention there was no date function?
There were hands specified. White but black at the base and not lumed. They are tapered as in the photo below. An incorrect replacement sweep second hand is easily seen on this one.
Beware of a dial and hands that are either way too bright or that do not match in patina(as in the replacement second hand example below). Regular service ensured the occasionally replaced part, sometimes even with the incorrect one, but it could be the first indication of a watch made recently from a jumble of parts.
Cases:
Many watches were re-cased after the war when watches were pricey but a refit wasn't.
As far as issued cases, there were basically two types:
First, the waterproof case. Has a two stepped appearance with an 8-sided screw-on back:
Secondly, the dust proof case had a knurled front and back. Both were removable:
Of special note - from my limited experience, the dials for these two types of cases are NOT interchangeable. The dust proof dial is > 1" and the waterproof dial is <1".
The cases were plated brass, plated "base metal", and stainless steel. Sterling cases are mentioned but are certainly not common and may be a supply variation. The backs were of the same materials but the majority are stainless steel.
There are replacement cases made. They are not out there retail but are in circulation. I do not believe these to be WWII era. The white-faced Elgin above(not an A-11) is in such a dustproof case. It measures slightly larger than the original next to it. The movements fit with a spacer(perfectly normal) but the case backs are not marked.
A big thing to look out for is worn pin holes. This will render the case useless but they still sell.
Markings:
The markings on back are usually stamped but I do think later in the war there was some engraving done. If so, it will NOT be sloppy. Just look at a bunch of pics online so you'll know when one doesn't look right.
As previously mentioned, there should be no maker markings on the face.
Bands: There were many variants. The cotton bands are most popular and available in one or two-piece. These were in a twill or in a poplin weave. It was likely later in the war when a nylon version was available for tropical climates. I've only read of these. Most seen are VN era. Nickle and brass buckles and grommets were common as well as the stitch-reinforced holes. Also available were leather bands. I have heard A-11s were actually issued with leather bands with the optional PX cotton bands available and also the other way around. I tend to think the latter.
As these are mechanical time pieces, they are frequently serviced. Back then, every one year was recommended. With today's synthetic lubes, you can go three, five, or more years. Service time was the ideal time to have a part replaced so different hands, crystals, crowns, etc show up often. Hoping to find an untouched watch with an original band is hopeful indeed.
Buying:
The above list is certainly not exhaustive BUT stay within it and you will likely end up with a true A-11 watch without paying $250+ from a dealer.
Once you find one that appears legit, consider how it runs. Fast, slow, inconsistently, or not at all. Most often they are in need of a cleaning. When you are dealing with a "watch guy", it will likely be running and be for sale for a premium. Others cannibalize watches or build a mongrel out of many different watches. These are called "Ebay Specials" and are an avenue for many, many parts watches.
To me though, the ones to look for are not from a watch guy, is shown without the back off as the seller doesn't know how to take the back off. Hopefully they state it will run only for a while. These are least likely to be messed with and likely just need the cleaning. Do check immediately, though, to ensure the proper movement and all the parts are inside! Then look to get it cleaned.
Servicing:
If you bought it for a collection, it will not get worse by not cleaning it now. But if you plan to wear it at all, I would start with a cleaning and assessment. This can be a problem. When getting these cleaned, if the quote is $50-60, don't do it! It will be a short job and not hardly done right. Running them only partially lubed will only wear out the unserviced pivots and jewels as they are likely dry. Ask what all will be done. This job takes even an experienced watch smith several hours so expect to pay for his time. If they say, "it's overwound" just walk away as they simply do not wish to work on your watch. They know they can make more servicing Rolex, etc. and not a salty, vintage $75 watch for which parts can no longer be ordered. A qualified watch maker can be hard to find as this is a dying field. I would consider some of the guys online who specialize in military watches but do yourself a favor and learn a little about your watch first so you know what is being done and what repairs make sense.
IME, buying parts of A-11s hoping to get one nice one is futile. It can be done but good ones are still out there complete so kinda makes that serviced $185 A-11 on Ebay sound good doesn't it?
Dave
