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“Plasticy” Chrome Tanned Finish
- Thread starter zoomer
- Start date
Ken at Aero Leather
Well-Known Member
Who tanned the leather?
Ken at Aero Leather
Well-Known Member
zoomer
A-2 I assume?
We've used all those methods, I'd start with the back of the pocket flaps, inside the pockets or down beside the zipper box (inside, of course) and see what happens, you can cover almost any screw up with matching shoe polish or bring a sheen to any area you are happy with by using a spray of Pledge and a good polish...................otherwise there's a site called ebay
A-2 I assume?
We've used all those methods, I'd start with the back of the pocket flaps, inside the pockets or down beside the zipper box (inside, of course) and see what happens, you can cover almost any screw up with matching shoe polish or bring a sheen to any area you are happy with by using a spray of Pledge and a good polish...................otherwise there's a site called ebay
zoomer
Well-Known Member
Fortune favors the brave here I suppose, but f@&%s the foolhardy.
Yes, it is the RW 1401P A-2 with chest 7” over tag size.
Years ago I had a Willis & Geiger A-2 with the same finish in a loathsome choccy-ice color. Tried daubing shoe dye over it - result about as pleasing as rubbing Vaseline on a cat
Yes, it is the RW 1401P A-2 with chest 7” over tag size.
Years ago I had a Willis & Geiger A-2 with the same finish in a loathsome choccy-ice color. Tried daubing shoe dye over it - result about as pleasing as rubbing Vaseline on a cat
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Yes, there are several reasons so few modern reproductions have “the look”. I believe the tanning process is a big one that we just consistently can’t overcome.
Zoomer, the Eco brand from Tandy is a really good “depot dye”. If you mess the jacket up you might consider just going over the whole thing.
FYI, the old depot instructions for a redye started with rags and acetone. As long as you don’t abrade the jacket into a suede finish it can be made no worse with a medium brown redye.
Dave
Zoomer, the Eco brand from Tandy is a really good “depot dye”. If you mess the jacket up you might consider just going over the whole thing.
FYI, the old depot instructions for a redye started with rags and acetone. As long as you don’t abrade the jacket into a suede finish it can be made no worse with a medium brown redye.
Dave
jeremiah
Well-Known Member
That’s what I had thought as well. Tanning is tanning. The same methods for both veg and chrome tanning gave pretty much remained the same since at least then. Jackets for the war were almost always pigmented or semi aniline finished. I can tell just looking at some pics of some originals. Even this goatskin Vietnam era G1 jacket I have is pigment finished.
jeremiah
Well-Known Member
No. They are completely different processes.
Tanning is transforming the hide into a state that won’t decay.
You can either use tannins or chromium salts. Using bark or plant tannins takes longer than using chromium salts.
After the crust hide has been made, you finish it. Or you don’t. Aniline dyes soak into the leather and do not seal the pores closed so your leather will absorb fluids and stain easier. Semi or pigment finish will close those pores and some will even put a top clear coat on to help with making abrasion resistant. You can apply these types of finishes regardless of how the leather has been tanned. No confusion at all.
I have a BK dubow that has been veg tanned but pigment finished. It feels “plastic like” more than the soft buttery feel of my BK aero which is aniline dyed or finished. I also own a chrome tanned thin cow indy jacket that has an aniline finish which does not have that plastic like feel to it, but you can definitely tell it’s cheome tanned. Chromium salts fill up the fibers more than veg tanning will do thus giving chrome tanned leather more natural water resistant properties.
“Finished” leather simply means that. The crust leather has been finished. Tooling leather is often just tempered crust leather that you finish after you are done tooling it.
There is a bit more to it but this is the cliff notes explanation.
Tanning is transforming the hide into a state that won’t decay.
You can either use tannins or chromium salts. Using bark or plant tannins takes longer than using chromium salts.
After the crust hide has been made, you finish it. Or you don’t. Aniline dyes soak into the leather and do not seal the pores closed so your leather will absorb fluids and stain easier. Semi or pigment finish will close those pores and some will even put a top clear coat on to help with making abrasion resistant. You can apply these types of finishes regardless of how the leather has been tanned. No confusion at all.
I have a BK dubow that has been veg tanned but pigment finished. It feels “plastic like” more than the soft buttery feel of my BK aero which is aniline dyed or finished. I also own a chrome tanned thin cow indy jacket that has an aniline finish which does not have that plastic like feel to it, but you can definitely tell it’s cheome tanned. Chromium salts fill up the fibers more than veg tanning will do thus giving chrome tanned leather more natural water resistant properties.
“Finished” leather simply means that. The crust leather has been finished. Tooling leather is often just tempered crust leather that you finish after you are done tooling it.
There is a bit more to it but this is the cliff notes explanation.
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jeremiah
Well-Known Member
good question. But you are correct. A lot of chrome tanned leather seems to get a semi-aniline or pigment finish to it. Might have to do with how chrome tanned leather these days tends to come out grey/blue looking after tanning. So using a pigment finish, which tends to be more opaque as opposed to the more translucent full aniline finish, might cover this up better?
2BM2K
Well-Known Member
It would seem then that the jacket is veg tanned with a pigment finish.
From photo's of what I have seen of various attempts to give this type of finish some character it is
probably too difficult to do well.
It is a peculiarity of this hobby that people take a used original A2 and restore to as-new condition but then
by contrast take an as-new reproduction A2 and give it a "time worn" finish to make it look old.
If the jacket is comfortable to wear then that is the important thing.
From photo's of what I have seen of various attempts to give this type of finish some character it is
probably too difficult to do well.
It is a peculiarity of this hobby that people take a used original A2 and restore to as-new condition but then
by contrast take an as-new reproduction A2 and give it a "time worn" finish to make it look old.
If the jacket is comfortable to wear then that is the important thing.
Ken at Aero Leather
Well-Known Member
Wow, that's the subject for a book not a post :>)
May I suggest a read of this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanning_(leather)
jeremiah
Well-Known Member
No kidding and it gets even more complicated as each tannery has their proprietary recipe for tanning which can yield different results including the temper of the leather and so on.
For example, my ELC monarch and BK aero are nearly worlds apart in terms of how the leather feels to the touch. Both are veg tanned fully aniline dyed leathers and both come from Italian tanneries.
For example, my ELC monarch and BK aero are nearly worlds apart in terms of how the leather feels to the touch. Both are veg tanned fully aniline dyed leathers and both come from Italian tanneries.
This has been discussed at length before. I can’t accept that the differences in hides now vs WWII are based solely on chromium vs veg tanning and/or pigment vs analine finish. I think it’s all off the OP topic but consider the current Italian livestock, Mexican livestock, Middle East livestock, etc. in comparison to post-worldwide depression era treatment of livestock - in any country but particularly in North America, not to mention the quality, quantity, and composition of chemicals used prior to a majority of US OSHA and EPA regs. Would that not have a little to do with it? Sheep hides in the UK vs the US showed diversity of production even within the period much less 70 yrs later.
The mentioned two tanning processes and three finish options allow for only so many combos and yet nobody can get a consistent supply. Me thinks it might be a little more complex.
Great observation how we post revitalize yet pre distress hides.
And if simply wearing an A-2 to death is the key to an authentic look mine would be one of the most authentic out there(in 3yrs). Alas, it too falls way short (it is not chromium tanned not is it HH). I do have extra hardware and a few NOS zips so if anyone would offer what they think is a “authentically” processed hide as found in, say, 1943, I’ll make another and in 3 years we’ll know! I can’t make ‘em the best but I feel I wear them about as authentically as I’ve yet seen.
JMO
Dave
P.S. I still advocate the depot treatment of Zoomer’s A-2 as I can’t lose either way!
The mentioned two tanning processes and three finish options allow for only so many combos and yet nobody can get a consistent supply. Me thinks it might be a little more complex.
Great observation how we post revitalize yet pre distress hides.
And if simply wearing an A-2 to death is the key to an authentic look mine would be one of the most authentic out there(in 3yrs). Alas, it too falls way short (it is not chromium tanned not is it HH). I do have extra hardware and a few NOS zips so if anyone would offer what they think is a “authentically” processed hide as found in, say, 1943, I’ll make another and in 3 years we’ll know! I can’t make ‘em the best but I feel I wear them about as authentically as I’ve yet seen.
JMO
Dave
P.S. I still advocate the depot treatment of Zoomer’s A-2 as I can’t lose either way!
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jeremiah
Well-Known Member
Hmmm so I was reading a post over on the FL. It was a post started by Charles of HPA. He was showing a jacket he had that according to him was stiff due to being in the drums longer. So this could also affect how smooth and how well a veg tanned jacket will drape.
When I visited Wickett and Craig of America tannery in currensville PA two summers ago, I saw machines that basically soften the leather after it comes out of the drying phase. Some customers request a really broken in feel from the start which they can accommodate, though they always recommend the customer just using the leather to achieve the same end results less the labor costs.
When I visited Wickett and Craig of America tannery in currensville PA two summers ago, I saw machines that basically soften the leather after it comes out of the drying phase. Some customers request a really broken in feel from the start which they can accommodate, though they always recommend the customer just using the leather to achieve the same end results less the labor costs.
That might be. Though certainly not a step taken during the war. Yet the creased broken in look was often photographed in newly issued A-2s.
I’m not on FL but I don’t think I would trust that particular fellow’s opinion on historical accuracy... on anything really.
JMO,
Dave
I’m not on FL but I don’t think I would trust that particular fellow’s opinion on historical accuracy... on anything really.
JMO,
Dave
