Ww2 hides vs. modern hides

[Enigma1938]

Hey folks,
There's a thing that makes me wonder and I'm sure I'm not alone with that.
We all know the great photos of ww2 usaaf veterans in their famous A2 jackets and some of us know a few surviving original jackets today. When we look at those jackets there is often so much character in the leather hides, the grain sometimes is outstanding but the question is; why can modern repro A2's even from the best makers not gain such a grain (or rarly) no matter how long we wear and abuse those jackets?? What is the difference?
One can say "hey those original jackets gained their grain and patina in many decades of hard wearing", but lots of the ww2 photos showing men who wear their jackets for an average of 1 or 2 years (some longer but many lesser) but they already show that desired grain of which we are after so much.
It seems that there is a secret left in producing / tanning leather back then, something modern makers are not able to reproduce no matter how much effort they bring up in authenticity.
There may be very few modern A2 repros which look comparable but they seem to be an exception.
Take Mr. Uber's A2 for example, it's almost impossible to bring a modern repro to look this way :

 

[B-Man2]

Hey folks,
There's a thing that makes me wonder and I'm sure I'm not alone with that.
We all know the great photos of ww2 usaaf veterans in their famous A2 jackets and some of us know a few surviving original jackets today. When we look at those jackets there is often so much character in the leather hides, the grain sometimes is outstanding but the question is; why can modern repro A2's even from the best makers not gain such a grain (or rarly) no matter how long we wear and abuse those jackets?? What is the difference?
One can say "hey those original jackets gained their grain and patina in many decades of hard wearing", but lots of the ww2 photos showing men who wear their jackets for an average of 1 or 2 years (some longer but many lesser) but they already show that desired grain of which we are after so much.
It seems that there is a secret left in producing / tanning leather back then, something modern makers are not able to reproduce no matter how much effort they bring up in authenticity.
There may be very few modern A2 repros which look comparable but they seem to be an exception.
Take Mr. Uber's A2 for example, it's almost impossible to bring a modern repro to look this way : View attachment 102347

While the tanning process was different then, the fact that they wore their jackets about 18 hours a day certainly helped to break down the hides and help with the graining process .,I have had repros that look like this. At the risk of sounding like a sales rep for Good Wear Leather, I’ve seen and owned a few of jCs jackets that develop similar graining patterns. Another point is that cow hide and horse hide Grain up differently . As we all now know cow hide jackets were more prevalent in some of the contracts than we first thought. So is the jacket in the photo a cow hide or a horse hide A2. I’ve had cow hide A2’s that Grain up fairly quickly where as horse hide jackets take a lot longer .

Edit : just found this . It may help .

What are Leather Grains, Textures and Finishes? | The Leather Guy

Leather Grains, Textures and Finishes; What is the difference? Knowing what leather texture you love makes it so much easier to pick out the right kind for your project.

theleatherguy.org

 

[MikeyB-17]

That chap’s isn’t much different to many jackets-you’ve got full-on grain and smooth patches on the same panel there on his right, and there’s not a lot of grain in most of the left-hand side either. My ELC A-2 is very similar, as are many jackets I’ve owned. I do wonder if there’s truth in what Aero say, that they didn’t hand-pick their hides in those days, every bit of ‘jerky’, scarred hide was used, because you weren’t dealing with jackets that cost hundreds or thousands.

 

[P-47 thunderbolt]

I certainly think alot is to do with today's hides being picked for their top quality - I.e hides with little scarring. But grain is certainly out there. I'm of the opinion that cow hides are more often grainier (creased) than the horse used today.
The top makers today use hides from top quality tanners ( mostly veg dyed and aniline semi analine finished) and so are possibly limited in their supply of grainy hide. Whereas 40s makers used adequate hides that were done on a low cost basis.
Chrome tanned mostly. So perhaps there was a high prevalence of creased, grainy hide.

 

[mulceber]

At the risk of seeming like I'm bragging, compare this photo of my GW 27752 that I took at the airport to the graining on the photo you shared:

That being said, I don't think you're wrong that a lot of modern hides have trouble showing the kind of intense graining we routinely see on WW2 jackets. I have some thoughts on why, but I'll confine them to things I haven't seen others say.

• outside of our community, smooth hides both are preferred and historically were preferred. The Air Force, however, was contracting for leather and they did not care about look, just functionality. I imagine a lot of the tanneries who got military contracts took the opportunity to jettison their "ugly" (read: grainy) leather, or leather that they knew would become "ugly."
• The prevalence of Italian HH: I don't know what it is about their tanning process, but I've noticed that a lot (maybe not all, but a lot) of Italian HH doesn't develop grain like the vintage stuff did. It tends to be tighter and pebbly. Sometimes I think it looks more like goatskin than Horsehide. This is just my opinion, and I have seen some Italian HH jackets that look more authentic. For my money though, Horween is tops when it comes to vintage graining (which makes sense - they're the only one of the Horsehide tanneries that was actually in business when the original A-2s were being made).

 

[P-47 thunderbolt]

This is a GW cowhide that I own, thicker than most ww2 hide but shows similar characteristics
Bare in mind that many ww2 a2s were very smooth and flat in their finish too

 

[P-47 thunderbolt]

Yes I've noticed Italian HH tends to be pebbly - particularly noticeable on Platon Dubows and many BK jackets.
Although pebbly ww2 jackets also existed.

 

[P-47 thunderbolt]

I'm not sure which tannery my poughkeepsie cow hide is from?
Gorgeous jacket but a little on the large side for me

 

[Silver Surfer]

the example is unusual in its graining. start at the beginning. were the animals used during the '30s-40s fed steroids? were they young, old? wild[ in the case of horses], domestic? I have read the goat was sourced from India during the war, as well as us goat. quality control in those days vs now? the list of variables is endless.

 

[P-47 thunderbolt]

@mulceber, I think you hit the nail on the head with ww2 tanneries jetisoning their 'ugly' hides on government contracts.

 

[Grant]

I know it's popular on this forum to covet grainy hides, but many originals were smooth overall with spotty areas of some grain. I'll try and snap some pics when I can of some of mine.

 

[ZuZu]

Here's a 23380 I had a while back from GW. It's Horween which is the closest IMO you can get to WW2 horse.

 

[ZuZu]

Here's a 23380 I had a while back from GW. It's Horween which is the closest IMO you can get to WW2 horse.View attachment 102357

Believe it or not I don't like the super grain much anymore. It should be used sparingly IMO. I know the Aleutians guy picture and I don't like the grain on his very famous A-2!

 

[mulceber]

I know it's popular on this forum to covet grainy hides, but many originals were smooth overall with spotty areas of some grain. I'll try and snap some pics when I can of some of mine.

That's also true. To some degree there's selective memory built into the question. We find a few photos of jackets from back then that grained up SUPER quickly, ignore the ones that stayed rather smooth until long after the war ended, and decide that jackets nowadays aren't grainy enough.

 

[Grant]

Here's a 23380 I had a while back from GW. It's Horween which is the closest IMO you can get to WW2 horse.

Sorry, but IMHO it looks like the hides have been dragged through and wash/dry cycle one too many times for a spankin new jacket. Also, the liner color looks too dark for a Rough Wear contract.

 

[Wz1999]

GW 27798 In russet Shinki horsehide

Original depot re-dye 16159 on top

 

[ZuZu]

I know it's popular on this forum to covet grainy hides, but many originals were smooth overall with spotty areas of some grain. I'll try and snap some pics when I can of some of mine.

This is exactly what I like now! Just as in the 2000's the pendulum swung waaaay too smooth- IMO over the top graininess is almost as bad. Almost.

 

[P-47 thunderbolt]

Two of my favourite jackets on VLJ

 

[ZuZu]

Sorry, but IMHO it looks like the hides have been dragged through and wash/dry cycle one too many times for a spankin new jacket. Also, the liner color looks too dark for a Rough Wear contract.

As usual the camera is a big fat liar. The color was actually OK- dark russet.

 

[ZuZu]

This is too much for me- grainy to an inch of life:

and yet years ago it would have been impossible to find. Luxury problems...