Would you refurbish an original?

[Showerfan]

Many of the originals I’ve seen — in Gary’s book, for example, or this one for sale on the Bay — look to be degraded past the point of daily wearability. Some have broken zippers, holes in the lining, shredded knits or even patches of leather missing. Would you refurbish an original? Replace broken parts and treat the leather, in order to wear it again? Or just hang it on display?

Original Bronco from the Bay

 

[mulceber]

Would and do. When I first get an original, the first thing I do is go over it carefully to find spots where the leather is starting to crack, or soon will be. A VERY light application of Vaseline, worked into the leather, helps to keep it supple, at least up to a point. My wife is an avid knitter and has helpfully darned frayed or moth-eaten knits. The stitch used for darning is such that you can tell what parts are original when examining the jacket closely, but not at first glance.

The way I see it, I want to keep these jackets in as good a condition as I can while still enjoying them, so they can be passed on and enjoyed by others. That isn’t going to happen without some intervention. Leather only lasts so long on it’s own.

 

[Smithy]

If we are talking US leather flight jackets obviously knits, linings can be replaced but the big thing and one of the most important with vintage leather objects is to be able to distinguish between old used leather and rot. Old leather can be treated with an appropriate leather conditioner and a bit of TLC, rot cannot. It can merely be stabilised with an application of a specific treatment like Klucel G.

It really depends on the jacket in question. If it had specific and famous/unique provenance then I personally wouldn't. I would stabilise its condition and display it in an environment which was UV and humidity sensitive. If it was a "generic" issued jacket in good condition with a lot of life left in it, I see no harm in tarting it up a bit. Just be aware though, that even it is a very old garment and should be treated with a lot more care than what you would a repro.

 

[B-Man2]

From my point of view , it depends on the condition of the jacket . If the outer shell is in decent shape and it’s a matter of new knits and lining then sure, I’ll spend the money and save the jacket. After all, the jackets are like the vets who owned them, they’re getting to be fewer of them every day. Now if it’s going to require more than those items to restore the jacket, then it becomes a matter of diminishing returns . The more you have replace pieces of the shell, the greater the expense, while the value of the jacket decreases due to it loosing its originality and authenticity. I mean, after you replace many of those pieces , you wind up with a partial reproduction A2 with a fairly hefty price tag. Much more than the cost of a repro. So you have to ask yourself was it worth it and what did I really save. Just my opinion guys.

 

[ausreenactor]

I would prefer to acquire a 'no spend' original. Access to repairers and replacement items.

If it was a family members jacket perhaps... spend the money to get the better jacket in the first instance...

 

[Micawber]

If the shell is ok and it's a generic, no provenance / art / patched jacket then yes. Anything historic then conservation is the way to go.

 

[B-Man2]

Agree totally.... forgot to mention that

 

[Silver Surfer]

So, ya find a ‘57 vette basket case. rotted tires, frozen alternator, starter, broken glass, fissures in the fiberglass, engine there, but hasn’t been turned over in 25+ years, etc. as is, it has an intrinsic value. But, you want to drive it. A crappy resto would run in the five digits. DIY resto, five digits. Pro soup to nuts resto? High five digits, maybe more. It is no longer original. however, ya now have a limited production 57 vette that you can drive, and depending on the quality of the resto, a very sought after, valuable toy. Applicable to wwll flight jackets? For a-2s, g-1s, m series, I would say yes. Applicable to any wwll shearling? No.

 

[B-Man2]

Many of the originals I’ve seen — in Gary’s book, for example, or this one for sale on the Bay — look to be degraded past the point of daily wearability. Some have broken zippers, holes in the lining, shredded knits or even patches of leather missing. Would you refurbish an original? Replace broken parts and treat the leather, in order to wear it again? Or just hang it on display?



Original Bronco from the Bay

So what are your thoughts now? Restoration or not?

 

[ausreenactor]

So, ya find a ‘57 vette basket case. rotted tires, frozen alternator, starter, broken glass, fissures in the fiberglass, engine there, but hasn’t been turned over in 25+ years, etc. as is, it has an intrinsic value. But, you want to drive it. A crappy resto would run in the five digits. DIY resto, five digits. Pro soup to nuts resto? High five digits, maybe more. It is no longer original. however, ya now have a limited production 57 vette that you can drive, and depending on the quality of the resto, a very sought after, valuable toy. Applicable to wwll flight jackets? For a-2s, g-1s, m series, I would say yes. Applicable to any wwll shearling? No.

What if you could get a kit car with a better engine and suspension for the cost it takes to buy and restore the old Vette?

 

[Silver Surfer]

Ya mean like those el cheap kit cars from Pakistan, or the over priced ones from the uk? A repro is a repro, is a repro. Remember when the first 356 kits came out, compleat with vw engines? Yikes. The kit repro s have gotten very good since the, some even with lectric drive trains. What’s more some of the better ones are now commanding serious coin in the after market. Sound familiar? All of my original a-2s, and navy jacs are wearers (within reason). When I have acquired one, and it needed some attention to make it road worthy, the deed was done. What’s the point to having a closet queen? (Rhetorical) though many collectors never wear their gear.

 

[Micawber]

What if you could get a kit car with a better engine and suspension for the cost it takes to buy and restore the old Vette?

Another example. Jeep. Original WW2 frame & axles but fitted with brand new Juan tub, fenders etc, CJ engine, T90 transmission, new combat rims etc might look like a WW2 Jeep, and a few bits may be period but WW2 it isn't. Same goes for all the Hotchkiss M201's painted up to look like WW2 Jeeps, they may look WW2 but they're not.

 

[Flightengineer]

Only my opinion. Museum's historicals jackets should be in the museum. I'm not a museum. I love old planes and old flight jackets. As long as I'm alive and be able, I'll whenever possible fly them, repair or help to restore this planes and wear vintage flight jackets. Life goes fast. Damn, very fast, and you need to enjoy what you have. I don't have (yet not have) the original A2, but when I'll get it, it will be restored to the weareable condition if necessary and I'll certainly wear it. If it will be necessary to replace the knitwear or zipper or liner - I'll go for it. Careful restoration with possibly original or exact copies of the original parts in order to preserve the former look - why not.
All my retro jackets, even those that have a history and background, I always wear. On the original 64 years old G-1 which saw a lot, including Vietnam, I replaced the muton. Yes, it was hard to find an old muton of the same color, but I did it. On 59 years old MA-1, which is probably was owned by Chuck, I repaired the knitbelt. Even my RAF Mk who saw Port Stanley from the cockpit, after a little repair is also in business. Also when you wear it, you also extend it life. Once I weared in my cockpit old G-1, lifting it again to the sky, and I think Jerry (first owner and great pilot), if he could saw this from heaven, would be glad about it.
Not to mention my other jackets, the story of which I don't know. I always wanted to have and wear originals only. So yes - repair if necessary and wear and enjoy.

 

[tjoenn]

Only my opinion. Museum's historicals jackets should be in the museum. I'm not a museum. I love old planes and old flight jackets. As long as I'm alive and be able, I'll whenever possible fly them, repair or help to restore this planes and wear vintage flight jackets. Life goes fast. Damn, very fast, and you need to enjoy what you have. I don't have (yet not have) the original A2, but when I'll get it, it will be restored to the weareable condition if necessary and I'll certainly wear it. If it will be necessary to replace the knitwear or zipper or liner - I'll go for it. Careful restoration with possibly original or exact copies of the original parts in order to preserve the former look - why not.
All my retro jackets, even those that have a history and background, I always wear. On the original 64 years old G-1 which saw a lot, including Vietnam, I replaced the muton. Yes, it was hard to find an old muton of the same color, but I did it. On 59 years old MA-1, which is probably was owned by Chuck, I repaired the knitbelt. Even my RAF Mk who saw Port Stanley from the cockpit, after a little repair is also in business. Also when you wear it, you also extend it life. Once I weared in my cockpit old G-1, lifting it again to the sky, and I think Jerry (first owner and great pilot), if he could saw this from heaven, would be glad about it.
Not to mention my other jackets, the story of which I don't know. I always wanted to have and wear originals only. So yes - repair if necessary and wear and enjoy.

Wait.... THE Chuck???

 

[Flightengineer]

Wait.... THE Chuck???

A year ago, my American friend Michael bought for me 1961 MA-1 Skyline at my request. It has Edwards AFB patch and white name tape Yeager. Both the patch and tape are historically correct, weared and correspond with worn jacket. All we know about this jacket is that the old lady that sold it lived next to Edwards and her dead son worked nearby (or at the base). There is no any documentary evidence that this jacket belonged to Chuck so therefore, I always write - probably. He probably had a lot of jackets, anyway I want to think that this is one of his - why not. I posted several photos of this jacket on this forum before in the thread what you wear today and it seems Greg was already asking me when I first time posted it and where it came from, and I once already talked about it. The jacket was sold as an "old green nylon jacket" and cost me not very expensive.

 

[Nickb123]

A year ago, my American friend Michael bought for me 1961 MA-1 Skyline at my request. It has Edwards AFB patch and white name tape Yeager. Both the patch and tape are historically correct, weared and correspond with worn jacket. All we know about this jacket is that the old lady that sold it lived next to Edwards and her dead son worked nearby (or at the base). There is no any documentary evidence that this jacket belonged to Chuck so therefore, I always write - probably. He probably had a lot of jackets, anyway I want to think that this is one of his - why not. I posted several photos of this jacket on this forum before in the thread what you wear today and it seems Greg was already asking me when I first time posted it and where it came from, and I once already talked about it. The jacket was sold as an "old green nylon jacket" and cost me not very expensive.

Here's the jacket reposted if you don't mind Dmitry.

 

[Flightengineer]

Thanks Nick.
Interestingly, only the older generation usually or people who interested or fans of aviation history now know these names. Once I conducted a small experiment and asked young pilots who had recently come to the company. Most don't know name of man who first breacked the sound barrier. They also poorly know the names that used to cause awe among us when I was a boy ... Lindberg, Chkalov, Levanevsky, Exupery and others. Although all young Russians collegues, of course, know Chkalov, but often as a surname "he was famous pilot and hero" without special details. Later I realized that this is a global trend.
Well, that's not for this thread.

 

[Nickb123]

Thanks Nick.
Interestingly, only the older generation usually or people who interested or fans of aviation history now know these names. Once I conducted a small experiment and asked young pilots who had recently come to the company. Most don't know name of man who first breacked the sound barrier. They also poorly know the names that used to cause awe among us when I was a boy ... Lindberg, Chkalov, Levanevsky, Exupery and others. Although all young Russians collegues, of course, know Chkalov, but often as a surname "he was famous pilot and hero" without special details. Later I realized that this is a global trend.
Well, that's not for this thread.

All I know is I'm going through google images trying to find him in an MA-1. Of course he famously wears a L2-B with similar white tape name tag and patch. You have one of two things here: either a collector who had a keen eye to recreate Yeager's jacket as a tribute, or Yeagar's jacket himself! I don't envision another Yeagar test pilot at Edwards but that could also be a slim, slim possibility.

Anyone bored today? We should try to locate an image of this jacket. I have a hunch it's the real deal. If so, you have a true aviation history gem!

ETA I can never properly spell his name!

fonts closely resemble between yours and Yeager's name tape too...

 

[Flightengineer]

All I know is I'm going through google images trying to find him in an MA-1. Of course he famously wears a L2-B with similar white tape name tag and patch. You have one of two things here: either a collector who had a keen eye to recreate Yeager's jacket as a tribute, or Yeagar's jacket himself! I don't envision another Yeagar test pilot at Edwards but that could also be a slim, slim possibility.

Anyone bored today? We should try to locate an image of this jacket. I have a hunch it's the real deal. If so, you have a true aviation history gem!

Nick, I scoured the whole network a year ago when I received this jacket, and I haven’t seen Chuck’s photo in MA-1 anywhere. Not a single photo where he wears MA-1. L2 only, these photos are well known. So I gave up a year ago

 

[Nickb123]

Nick, I scoured the whole network a year ago when I received this jacket, and I haven’t seen Chuck’s photo in MA-1 anywhere. Not a single photo where he wears MA-1. L2 only, these photos are well known. So I gave up a year ago

This is something worthy of more than a year's efforts! Dude!! Back to topIc, nope, wouldn't refurbush this!

Is his first jacket an L-2B or L-2?