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Why won't my patch Google ??

deeb7

Gone, but not forgotten.
I should know better than to meddle in things I know nothing about ... but why won't my patch Google?

I bought it this week, it's certainly old, older than the pictures show, even has a few borer holes. What do you think, what's going on here?

103SQDN.jpg


103SQDN-back.jpg
 

unclegrumpy

Well-Known Member
deeb7 said:
I bought it this week, it's certainly old, older than the pictures show, even has a few borer holes. What do you think, what's going on here?]

I could not come up with anything either!

I am not sure where you turned this up, but it looks Canadian made to me....WW II or very close....and a Disney design. 103 Squadron in the RAF flew Lancasters, but I did not see anything like this for an insignia for them. There is a 103 Squadron RCAF but it was formed postwar, and again uses a different design.

This patch with it's half wing background, machine gun, and electrical bolts has the look of something related to radio operator/gunners...so maybe it is training related. It is a very nice patch, and I bet there will be somebody who knows what it is.
 

EMBLEMHUNTER

Well-Known Member
I concur, either British or Canadian , nice patch !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Johnny
You need to run it by "Disney Dave" over on the site titled, US Militaria Forum" under the Disney section there , I think he may be able to tell you more .
 

RCSignals

Active Member
look at the style of cap on his head, it could be more 'commonwealth' wedge cap than a US cap. Could it be a RNZAF patch?

Could it be a sub hunter Sgn?
 

deeb7

Gone, but not forgotten.
Thanks for the replies, I'll keep looking ... Cory, I bought it locally, here in NZ. Although I'm not a collector they are nice things to have, and with only one other, at least now I have a theme.

VMF122Patch.jpg
 

Lebensgefahr

Active Member
Hi

Nice patch,i`m very envious.I have something similar which i have always assumed was a post war wop/ag association patch but i have to admit badges are not my strong point.
Here it is anyway

DSC010691.jpg


LG
:?:
 

Andrew

Well-Known Member
I'd agree Dave, Wireless Air Gunner (WAG)- wasn't your old man Bomber Crew? Definitely a commonwealth sidecap pattern too. There was an RAF 103 Sq and they flew Halifaxes, Wellingtons and Lancs. Possibly the owner was an NZ member of the crew and this was some very unofficial patch they had made. At any rate you're right it does make a nice edition to your ducky theme- very cool.
 

deeb7

Gone, but not forgotten.
Andrew said:
- wasn't your old man Bomber Crew?

Driver ... No. 100 Squadron.

Yes, thanks for the cap clue RC, and also SQDN is a British, and Commonwealth abbreviation.
 

unclegrumpy

Well-Known Member
David, I remember your posts when you picked up the VMF 122 patch. What I don't think was mentioned....and I am to lazy to look it up right now....is that it is the very rare Australian made first version!

Millstein in his excellent book on USMC Squadron patches says:

In 1942, "VMF 122's first insignia was developed and manufactured during an R & R to Sidney Australia" He goes on to further say it was produced in very limited numbers and only available to flight personnel, and the design was changed to the "official design" shown below in 1943 when the squadron went back to the States to reorganized.

post-3673-1309147629.jpg


The interesting point regarding your new find is I think it is probably an official design from the Disney Studios. Your VMF 122 patch is not, and while my reference does not say it, I know from researching other Disney themed patches that the Studio did not tolerate unofficial designs with their characters on them. I am sure that is why VMF 122 changed it's design in 1943.

Your new patch has a really well executed Donald Duck. Another telling detail that I have noticed with other Disney designs that were made for units from other Countries, is the tell tale signs of US insignia design elements. In this case, the wing looks more like half an AAF wing prop device than a RAF or Commonwealth half wing.

As far as an id for the new one, that may be tough. If it did not have the 103 SQDN on it, I would be thinking it was from a training school or squadron for Wireless Operators and Gunners. There are AAF schools that have patches that this design would fit right in with.

What is odd with the 103 SQDN designation is it does not seem to fit with the RAF's 103 SQDN, except that they would have had Wireless Operators and Gunners. Also, with half a wing, I can't imagine a pilot wearing this patch. I still think it has a look of being Canadian made. Most of the RCAF patches that I have seen made like this were more for PX souvenir items...to be put on little banners, pennants, pillow cases, on sports jackets, but not very often on flight gear like US squadron patches. If this is the case here, it might explain a lot.

Anyway, it is very nice patch that will be interesting to learn more about.
 

deeb7

Gone, but not forgotten.
unclegrumpy said:
Anyway, it is very nice patch that will be interesting to learn more about.

I think we just did ... thankyou. :cool:

... and thankyou for the new info about VMF 122. I believe that Marcel also has a version of this patch.
 

RCSignals

Active Member
deeb7 said:
Andrew said:
- wasn't your old man Bomber Crew?

Driver ... No. 100 Squadron.

Yes, thanks for the cap clue RC, and also SQDN is a British, and Commonwealth abbreviation.

Canadian use abbreviation for Squadron is Sqn. It may have been Sqdn previously but I am not aware of it.
Perhaps that abbreviation is more indication it could he a NZ AF origin patch, or maybe RAAF?
 

EMBLEMHUNTER

Well-Known Member
Could it possibly be a "south African" unit, I think they had some B-24's didn't they at one time ????????????????
Johnny
 

deeb7

Gone, but not forgotten.
EMBLEMHUNTER said:
Could it possibly be a "south African" unit ...

Thanks Johnny, that's something I hadn't thought of ... their 103 ran from 1963-1993, so no luck yet. Our grumpy uncle's best guess is an unofficial Canadian PX souvenir, so unless something better appears, I'm going with that.
 

deeb7

Gone, but not forgotten.
RCSignals said:
Canadian use abbreviation for Squadron is Sqn. It may have been Sqdn previously but I am not aware of it.

I was relying on this page, RCS ...

http://www.elsham.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/raf_bc/

  • The correct abbreviation for Squadron is Sqdn. This also applies to Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF), Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF), Royal New Zealand Air Force (RNZAF), Polish Air Force (PAF) or Free French Air Force (FFAF).
 

RCSignals

Active Member
It is possible 'sqdn' was previously used by the RCAF. Perhaps during WW2.

That design 'wedge cap' has never gone out of use in Canada.
 

unclegrumpy

Well-Known Member
deeb7 said:
RCSignals said:
Canadian use abbreviation for Squadron is Sqn. It may have been Sqdn previously but I am not aware of it.

I was relying on this page, RCS ...

http://www.elsham.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/raf_bc/

  • The correct abbreviation for Squadron is Sqdn. This also applies to Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF), Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF), Royal New Zealand Air Force (RNZAF), Polish Air Force (PAF) or Free French Air Force (FFAF).

That is an interesting link! Especially so since they use the 103 Sqdn as one of their examples. By the way, I think the patch looks Canadian made, but that does not mean it has to be solely RCAF.
 

RCSignals

Active Member
that is true just because it may have been Canadian made does not mean it was for the RCAF. Canada had schools attended by many countries during WW2

what about the patch makes you think it was Canadian made?
 

unclegrumpy

Well-Known Member
RCSignals said:
What about the patch makes you think it was Canadian made?
I know some Canadian collectors that collect Canadian Squadron and souvenir patches from the WW II to the 1960's. I used to go up there often, and would look for these patches in the States in hopes of finding something I could bring up to trade with them. Never found many interesting patches here over the years, but did find a few. Mostly had fun looking at their collections, listening to their bad jokes, and drinking too much beer.

Anyway, here are a few examples of RCAF patches I could find online....I think you will see the similarity to David's patch, plus more interestingly, an example of a WW II Canadian made Disney patch with Pluto on it. The 135 Sqdn patch has a Disney look about it as well....much like an AAF 61st FS....but it might be just Disney like, rather than actually a Disney Studios piece.

wwii-rcaf-watson-lake-moose-crest-squadron-patch-ex_220762835930.jpg


rcaf-no-135-fighter-squadron-fighting-bulldog-crest_270794535839.jpg


A0029-1-RCAF168Sq.jpg


milptchrcaf412transqww2.jpg
 
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