The G-1 --- 'batwing' problem?

[Striker]

I have never owned a G-1, always preferred the A-2. However, I started taking another look at the G-1.

I like the G-1, but the only thing is I have read in some posts regarding the G-1's 'batwing' problem.

Is this due to the bi-swing back of the G-1? Some motorcycle jackets also have bi-swing backs. Do they have the same problem?

Is there a way that a manufacturer can have the jacket cut on the G-1 so that it doesn't produce the 'batwing' effect?

Thanks,

Striker

 

[better duck]

Hi Striker,
I'm not entirely sure of what you mean with "the batwing problem".
If you mean that the bi-swing panels stand out: they don't, or at least haven't done on my ELC G1 that I have worn to pieces over a period of 10 years, nor on my ELC M422A, that I've been wearing for some 5 years now. There is an elastic band (or two) that holds the "swingpanels" to the inside of the jacket.
The bi-swing construction makes for a very comfortable jacket: body hugging, and at the same time leaving ample freedom for arm movement. More so than on a body hugging A2. To get the same effect, an A2 will by necessity have to have a larger backpanel, and thus be slightly more "baggy" than an G1 or M422A in the same size.

 

[Burnsie]

If you're talking about wide & low armholes creating a "batwing" under the armpits I don't get that from my G-1. I DO however get that from my old MC jacket. Wide low armholes = batwings when you raise your arms.

 

[deeb7]

If you're talking about wide & low armholes creating a "batwing" under the armpits I don't get that from my G-1. I DO however get that from my old MC jacket. Wide low armholes = batwings when you raise your arms.

It's like Peter says, on a G-1 the back will pop out, and stay out, especially annoying if it's just one side. I don't have the problem either, I guess it's caused by a bad cut, or fit .... or the elastic incorrectly positioned.

But I know what you're talking about, and it should be called 'batwing'. I bought a Cooper A-2, just to see what they were like, raised my arms, and started laughing. I felt that I could safely glide off tall buildings.

 

[Burnsie]

But I know what you're talking about, and it should be called 'batwing'. I bought a Cooper A-2, just to see what they were like, raised my arms, and started laughing. I felt that I could safely glide off tall buildings.

Hey I hadn't thought of that...Cooper could have manufactured their A-2's in bright primary colors and marketed them to super heros! Hmmmm.....

 

[Atticus]

But I know what you're talking about, and it should be called 'batwing'. I bought a Cooper A-2, just to see what they were like, raised my arms, and started laughing. I felt that I could safely glide off tall buildings.

Its true. And that same "flying squirrel" cut plagues the A-2s that Avirex made for the Air Force in the late ninties. The only brand of new-issue A-2s that seems to have avoided this problem is Orchard. I'm not sure why the new a-2s were made this way. Its a shame, really. Generally, their quality in terms of workmanship and materials is otherwise pretty good.

But back to the G-1 "bat-wing" problem. Didn't we discuss this issue at length on one of the old forums? I seem to recall us concluding that the problem was caused by the elastic bands in the back of the jacket losing tension due to age and wear.

AF

 

[rotagz]

I think whether or not you get "batwing" with a G-1 is determined mostly by what part of the goat is in the bi-swing area. Goats being small animals, a good part of the hide is used in the back panel. If you end up with the flank area of the hide around your shoulders it can do anything, as that is very flexible leather. Shoulder area of hide will be flatter for awhile. But over time the dynamics of the leather eventually win out. You have the back piece, which is then folded inward and sewn down. It is then sewn to another long narrow piece of leather, which makes the pleat. This narrow piece is scrap leather, and may be softer or stiffer, depending on where it came from. So with use, over time, the leather works itself into a configuration where it is most "comfortable."
That is why no two jackets are ever the same in the pleated area. The variables, what with hide, placement, and also the scrap piece, seem to border on the infinite.

 

[airfrogusmc]

Geoff Ken (Aero) always said it was due to poor cut/poor fit. Some of the longer jackets (early 422 and 422a) seem to have it. Not all but some and agian fit also comes into play and it has less to do with how tight the jacket is. I've had very snug originals (Star and Martin Lane) that never batwinged. The bi-swing would extend and come back and lay flat. I've had some repros that the problem was TERRIBLE. My Aero 6552 was perfect.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi run your fingers down the inside back lining and see if you can feel the elastic straps that run across left to right .Sometimes they are cut to make the jacket bigger this could be your problem.Rgds Jeff .

 

[hacker]

The "batwing" problem is primarily the way the bi-wing back is sewed. You can take the elastic straps out completely and still will not have this problem if the pleats are sewn correctly. In fact if the problem is there stronger elastic straps will only make the problem worse!....I guess it is possible that the type of goat leather used might come in to play if it truly has a memory to return to a certain position but remember many later G-1's are made of cow, and they have this problem quite often.



Hacker

 

[bfrench]

The "batwing" problem is primarily the way the bi-wing back is sewed. You can take the elastic straps out completely and still will not have this problem if the pleats are sewn correctly. In fact if the problem is there stronger elastic straps will only make the problem worse!....I guess it is possible that the type of goat leather used might come in to play if it truly has a memory to return to a certain position but remember many later G-1's are made of cow, and they have this problem quite often.

Hacker

Hi, Hacker,

Could you give us more info on the way the pattern should be sewn? What we should / could look for in a certain design?

Bill French

 

[hacker]

The "batwing" problem is primarily the way the bi-wing back is sewed. You can take the elastic straps out completely and still will not have this problem if the pleats are sewn correctly. In fact if the problem is there stronger elastic straps will only make the problem worse!....I guess it is possible that the type of goat leather used might come in to play if it truly has a memory to return to a certain position but remember many later G-1's are made of cow, and they have this problem quite often.

Hacker

Hi, Hacker,

Could you give us more info on the way the pattern should be sewn? What we should / could look for in a certain design?

Bill French

Appreciate your vote of confidence! ....I guess it would be best to look at how the leather lays smoothly in the pleat when done correctly vs. a "batwing" model were you can see the leather just doesn't sit right. I don't have any jackets here with the "batwing" look so I can't show an either/or. I have had several in the past where you could see the leather "bunching up" on one halve of the pleat when the other is pulled tight. I believe the problems lies when the two pleats are sewn on the inner portion and the upper leather part is pulled too tight when its stitched. Hard to describe....a picture would be worth a thousand words!...Sorry, don't have any!!!!


Hacker