The Battle of the Two Lightweights, Eastman Vs Aero Lightweight Irvin’s

[B-Man2]

INTRODUCTION

Burt:

First off let me say thank you to John Lever for agreeing to write a comparison post of the Eastman, Lightweight Irvin vs . the Aero Lightweight Irvin. John and I agreed to take on this project in part because each of us owned a lightweight Irvin repro, and since these are two new offerings from ELC and Aero we thought we’d share them with the VLJ members for their review and comments . By sharing our ideas and thoughts on each of our new jackets, we think the readers will have a better perspective of each jacket and be able to make an informed decision if they are considering purchasing either the ELC or the Aero. . So with that, let’s take a look at these two Irvin repros. John and I hope you enjoy the review.
Cheers

ELC

AERO

OUTER HIDES :
John:
Eastman has gone for a slightly crazed finish similar to that used by Toys McCoy's on their excellent B3. Dry in finish the colour is a mid chestnut brown less red than some other Eastman Irvins. The main feature is the very light weight that I think comes from selectively bred sheep.
The result is a very light jacket that crumples when dropped, it doesn't stand up like some others do.

Burt :
The outer hide of the Aero is one of the nicest I’ve seen in a repro Irvin. It’s flexible and not the usual stiff hide we are accustomed to seeing on a repro Irvin jacket . The thing that really sells it from my perspective is the overall color of the hide. A nicely done Russett color which is similar to the color of the ELC Irvin. That’s just my opinion, so you guys will have to compare the photos and let me hear your opinions on this point .

ELC

AERO

COLLAR
John:
I think Eastman bases their pattern on a Wareings jacket as opposed to Aero that looks more like a !inks.The collar is quite large and made from more curly luxurious fleece than the body, it has more lustre and is longer. The collar strap is very short.

Burt:
The collar of the Aero Irvin looks spot on to me. It’s slightly rounded at the ends and reminds me of several period photos of original Irvin’s I’ve seen over the years . The fleece is a beautiful mellow, off white color, but I really can’t determine if it’s what would be considered as Merino Fleece . The fleece is shorter and less dense than what we would normally see on a regular Aero Irvin .
ELC

AERO

LABELS

John:
Eastman has used a mix of a military and civilian label. The sizing nomenclature is military but the description looks civilian rather like a label seen on a Sportsman jacket from the 1930's, almost like something Aero would use.

Burt:
The Aero Irvin’s’ label is definitely one of its shortcomings. Aero has the ability to do better. With all of their data and experience, I’m not sure why they dropped the ball on this small area of the jacket. Could it be that the actual Aero company never made Irvin’s during the war, so there’s no true example of an Aero Irvin label ? But if that’s the case, why not just repro a label of an original? It’s always the little things that distinguish a great repro from a mediocre one isn’t it ?

ELC

AERO


SHOULDERS AND ARMS

John:
As expected Eastman have constructed this jacket perfectly, the shape follows that seen on all their Irvins, very wide arms but rather short compared to originals. I think 2 more inches would be perfect, down to the first set on knuckles.

Burt:
The Aero has none of the tubular look that many of the earlier repros have. The overall areas of the shoulders and the arms compliment the look of the jacket, as well as giving it the appearance of a period original . It makes you wonder why Aero went to the trouble of making the jacket look so spot on for an original, and then use a crappy label on the jacket . Ok, I really need to get over the label . LOL!

ELC

AERO

 

[B-Man2]

SEAM TAPES
John:
The seam tapes are quite narrow and sewn with tight tiny stitches. Contrary to some comments they do have a colour mottled finish and don't look brand new.

Burt:

The seam tapes are expertly done and I think really make the jacket look good . The tapes will age over time as will the rest of the jacket, giving it the appearance of a period original .
Others may disagree, and if that’s the case then please express your thoughts, as it would be helpful to hear opposing opinions.
ELC

AERO

BUCKLES AND ZIPPERS

John:
The buckle looks very close to originals that I have seen (not an expert here) it looks like it is dull nickel. The belt is too short !

Burt:
In my opinion the belt and buckle and zippers are all quality repro items . Aero has found a source for repro Air Ministry Zippers that really makes the jacket look good and period correct . The belt and buckle, once aged a bit will give the appearance of period correct jacket . The zippers look the part and should age nicely as well .

ELC

AERO

FLEECE COMPARISON.
John:
As mentioned earlier the fleece on the collar and windflap is much nicer (to me) than on the body which is slightly bristly in texture. The early ELC Merino jackets were curly and luxurious all over but remember this a direct copy of an early war jacket in the collection in Devon.
I would prefer a slightly more golden colour. It might be good to remember that in WW2 jackets were made from adult sheep hides, not lamb skins.
Fleece depth approx 1/2 in or 12mm.

Burt:

This is the real talking point of this comparison, the fleece . Both Aero and ELC have come up with a jacket that is a lightweight version of the original . Oddly enough neither Aero or ELC were the first to come up with the idea of making a light weight repro . The US based company “ What Price Glory “ developed lightweight B-3 and Irvin repros back around 2012 and labeled them as being a more wearable version of the original jackets . The fleece was lighter in density and shorter than the fleece in original jackets or repros of the day . I remember that the concept of a light weight original wasn’t warmly received by many of us on VLJ including myself . The fleece on the Aero is definitely less dense and shorter than that of a normal Aero or ELC repro jacket . The real tell tale sign can be found by looking at the arms when wearing the jacket. Normal repro Irvin’s arms are a bit stiff and until the jacket gets broken in , are less flexible than the light weight version . I’ve found that because of it having less dense and shorter fleece, the jacket almost has a draping effect on me . You can check out the photo and judge for yourself . The depth of the collar fleece on the Aero is about 10mm while the interior fleece is about 6 to 8 mm depending on the area that you measure . The density of the fleece is less dense than that of a normal Aero repro . And there you have it . This is what makes the jacket a light weight version of a normal repro .
ELC

AERO

CONCLUSION
John:
A very nice looking very wearable jacket that works in our warmer climate.
Not a stitch for stitch doppelganger copy of a repro but something that will satisfy all but the most critical observers. Yes the finish is slightly fake but it works, just.
I have been nagging Gary to abandon Broken Grain for years so I had to put my money where my mouth is. I wonder if they will be other light weight jackets to come?!

Burt:

So … Here’s my thoughts on this jacket . It’s a nicely done lightweight repro that will definitely attract a few people because it easier to wear and you can wear it through a wider range of temperatures . It looks good and with some aging you’ll have a nice looking repro . But here’s where I think the jacket looses me. Like many of you, when I purchase a repro jacket, I want the most accurate repro that’s available for the best price available . Now this jacket is a nice jacket BUT…….. if I’m going to put down $1200 plus dollars for a repro Irvin … then I want the most accurate repro available to include the same weight and warmth factors that the original jacket was worn for and known for . And, I certainly don’t want an Irvin that is less than what the original was designed to be used for. Am I making sense here? To say it another way , we strive for accuracy in our repro jackets and we often tear apart any repro maker that fails to provide that accuracy in his offerings. So do we now accept anything less in terms of accuracy because it’s “more wearable and more useful when walking through the mall shopping or that it can be worn in 65F temps ? I guess that’s the question that each of us will have to ask ourselves before we drop the cash for a lightweight Irvin . For me ……Give me the “ Full Monte” …. (pun intended here guys)
ELC

AERO

Thanks for your time !
John & Burt

 

[Kermit3D]

Excellent review ! Thank you very much to both of you.
From what I understand, these jackets would have sacrificed some of their authenticity to make them easier to wear.
According to the ELC site, some period manufacturers produced lighter jackets, and this short fleece would have existed on some original models.

I don't know much about Irvins, but I wonder how credible these "light" jackets are.

For example, in this photo, this pilot is wearing an Irvin jacket that appears to be relatively light :

 

[mulceber]

Really great and thorough review. Well done guys!

What’s interesting to me is the difference in shearling thickness. About 12 mm vs. 6-8 mm. From what Tim’s told me about the variation among originals, the Eastman is on the low end of authentic. Aero’s is too thin for those really interested in authenticity.

 

[Smithy]

Excellent review ! Thank you very much to both of you.
From what I understand, these jackets would have sacrificed some of their authenticity to make them easier to wear.
According to the ELC site, some period manufacturers produced lighter jackets, and this short fleece would have existed on some original models.

I don't know much about Irvins, but I wonder how credible these "light" jackets are.

For example, in this photo, this pilot is wearing an Irvin jacket that appears to be relatively light :

That's George Barclay of 249 Sqn. The fleece on originals tends to be fairly dense even if it could vary in terms of length. I'll post a pic of myself wearing an original early one to demonstrate this...

 

[Kermit3D]

Anyway, when I see the pictures where you are wearing these Irvins, one thing is sure : It looks pretty damn good !

But I have a preference for the Irvin from ELC. I'm not really sold on the skin grain... but everything else seems a step above the Aero Leather jacket.

 

[bn1966]

Really enjoyable and informative reviews..thanks Chaps.

 

[bn1966]

ELC version if I was buying but then again I am an ELC fanboy…

 

[Smithy]

Here you go me in an original early Irvin which shows the typical fleece density even after 70/80 years...

 

[MikeyB-17]

Fascinating, Captain. Well played John and Burt. For me it would be the Aero-I don’t like the ELC outer finish at all, and I also prefer the look of the Aero seam tape stitching, and the collar shape. The ELC zip looks better though-my views on Aero ‘antique brass’ zips have been aired here on numerous occasions. I can see the point about the lighter weight fleece, and I agree that if I was in the market for an Irvin I’d be more inclined to buy one closer to the original spec, but I’m sure there are folk outside this forum who give not a rodent’s posterior about such things, and as such I don’t doubt there’s a market for such a jacket.

 

[Kermit3D]

Here you go me in an original early Irvin which shows the typical fleece density even after 70/80 years...

Beautiful jacket Smithy !
In my opinion the density of the fleece and the overall visual appearance of this original irvin seems pretty close to Burt and John's Irvins.

Better at least than some "classic" ELC jackets that look very stiff and very "bloated"

 

[John Lever]

As I said previously, in an ideal world I would have both. With such choice you can't go wrong either way

 

[B-Man2]

Here you go me in an original early Irvin which shows the typical fleece density even after 70/80 years...

Tim
That’s a sweet one . Do you still have that one?

 

[Smithy]

Tim
That’s a sweet one . Do you still have that one?

Nope it's Andrew Bock's who sadly no longer posts on here Burt.

It's a stunner and with terrific history, it was the jacket of a Kiwi Mossie pilot from 487(NZ) Sqn, the low level boys who hit the Gestapo HQs/prisons in Copenhagen and Amiens.

Hell of a lot of history in that jacket.

 

[B-Man2]

That’s an awesome looking jacket. Would love to know where that resides these days, particularly if it’s a size 46 or 48

 

[Smithy]

That’s an awesome looking jacket. Would love to know where that resides these days, particularly if it’s a size 46 or 48

It was a size 6 or even a 7 if I remember rightly Burt.

Gorgeous jacket and a terrific history.

 

[Micawber]

Thanks Burt, thanks John, for your respective and very informative reviews.

 

[MaydayWei]

Ok, Sh*t. Now I need an ELC Fly Weight Irvin. First sheepskin that caught my eye. Oh no.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

Thanks Burt and John that's a great read and some good insights into the two jackets.

And "yes you do" Wei

 

[MrProper]

Top Review. Congratulations.

I add the pictures of my Aero Coastal Command. Maybe someone will be interested.
I think mine has the same fleece as the one you described.