Recommend me a leather jacket

[MrBlue]

True that. I'm mostly thinking back to when I first bought an A-2. The '30s/'40s fit is not one that seems natural to most people nowadays, and Andy almost had to persuade me that I should go for a 42. Then, when I got it, I thought it was too short, and I had to have both Andy and friends in the VLJ community reassure me that it was a good fit.

Man, looking back, I was stubborn!

Sorry can you explain to me what you mean? About the difference in expectations between what I might think it should fit like and what it should really fit like?

 

[MrBlue]

Not at all. In fact I wouldn't read too much into that. I have three BKs, and none have aged much at all... Same can be said for ELC's Warhorse. These will 'age' or wear in, depending on how and how much you wear it.
Also, Fivestar may be a good call. If you get the A-2, get the Doniger in goat.

Thanks!

Will look at the Doniger.

Which contract A2 would you guys recommend? I mean, there are SO MANY! Rough Wear, Dubow, etc etc.

So obviously it would need to be on the slim fit side, but also I like the idea of having a collar stand.

I don't know why but I'm leaning towards A2 and not G1 now. I guess what happened is....

Last year I watched Top Gun for the first time, and obviously I wanted a G1 like everyone. So I started looking around, and found Noble House. Initially I was going to go for a Noble House G1, or even ask them to add a removable mouton collar to one of their German jackets. But after seeing photos of the German jackets just as they were, they just looked so good. I thought a mouton collar would ruin it, not add to it. So I decided to go for the BF-109 jacket as is, and man it is great.

Don't laugh, but before settling on Noble House, I made the mistake of ordering a cheap mass produced "lambskin" leather jacket in seal brown with a removable mouton collar. I tried it on, and I didn't immediately go WOW. It was more like "Hmmm". Now, yes, it wasn't a very impressive example.

But for me that is my criteria for a leather jacket - when I put it on, I have to feel like a movie star. If I don't, then no point in keeping it.

That's my worry about a mouton collar. But then, that might have to do with the fact that it was a cheaply made inaccurate garment rather than an ELC G1.

 

[Cocker]

A-2 jackets were meant to be worn with high waisted trousers from the 30s/40s, or flight suits, meaning they are and must be quite short to look right. Fit shouldn't be too trim as they can be a bit restrictive due to the one piece back and high arm holes, but they shouldn't be too baggy neither.

 

[mulceber]

Sure - people in the early-mid twentieth century expected a much more fitted jacket than is common nowadays (the '80s and '90s completely threw off our expectations by introducing us all to big jackets with even bigger shoulders). Additionally, because people in the first half of the twentieth century wore high-rise trousers (AKA "grandpa pants") that could go up as far as their belly button, a jacket that went down to 2-3 inches below the belt line on them is barely below the belt line on us. It takes a little getting used to, but it looks great!

edit: Cocker beat me to the punch. In terms of contract, if you're going Bill Kelso, my recommendation would be the Aero/Arco 18775: the Aero's are on the more comfortable side, the 18775 originally came in dark seal, like you want, and it's one of the most classic contracts.

 

[Cocker]

the Aero/Arco 18775: the Aero's are on the more comfortable side, the 18775 originally came in dark seal, like you want, and it's one of the most classic contracts.

Or go to Aero, same contract, but in Jerky seal HH! Lots of grain and character, ages somewhat quickly and really nicely!

Yup, I'm still in love with mine!

 

[Nickb123]

I think you'll find more utility with the A-2. Though I love both USAAF and USN jackets and each are cool, the A-2 is just totally punk rock when done right. Contrary to the (incorrect, IMO) stigma it gets as a conservative jacket, it really has this element of cool about it which will never be adequately explained or expressed. Very versatile; can wear it smoking a cigarette or at church kissing elderly women on the cheek or both simultaneously. The leather collar ANJ-3 isn't far behind either.

As for leather, the dark seal jerky fits the "darkest of dark browns" bill quite perfectly. But note it does show pronounced brown undertones in time. Same with the BK Liberty based on what I've seen. If you are thinking Aero, the dark seal Vicenza is less prone to such colorization.

 

[mulceber]

I think you'll find more utility with the A-2. Though I love both USAAF and USN jackets and each are cool, the A-2 is just totally punk rock when done right. Contrary to the (incorrect, IMO) stigma it gets as a conservative jacket, it really has this element of cool about it which will never be adequately explained or expressed. The leather collar ANJ-3 isn't far behind either.

As for leather, the dark seal jerky fits the "darkest of dark browns" bill quite perfectly. But note it does show pronounced brown undertones in time. If you are thinking Aero, the dark seal Vicenza is less prone to such colorization.

Definitely. The G-1 fits more like a modern jacket with the bi-swing back, but the A-2 is more of an all-weather jacket, what with the cotton lining and the lack of a mouton collar.

 

[MrBlue]

Thanks everyone, appreciate all of the advice.

I've decided to stay away from BK. I know a lot of people have had good experiences with their leather, but the fact that they age and lose their colour so quickly concerns me.

I'm probably going to get an Aero Leather A2 after all. The one thing about the Aero Leather company is that I find their website a little confusing. I just want to know more about the various leathers and what they are, but its so difficult to get information!

Can someone tell me what the difference is between Seal Brown Jerky Horsehide, Oil Pull horse hide, and Italian Seal horsehide?

It sounds like their Italian horsehide is the best reviewed in terms of how it drapes.

 

[mulceber]

Fair do's on choosing Aero. I will say though that the aging on BK should be no cause for concern. I've only seen one or two jackets of theirs that looked particularly old and those jackets looked fantastic. Browse through their facebook page:

This one they posted a few months back, that's about 2-3 years old, but the customer had done all kinds of extreme stuff to it: leaving it lying out in the hot sun, using it as a towel to dry his face after doing yard work. It looks about 10 times older than just about any of their jackets that I've seen.

But yes, Aero is a good choice.

 

[MrBlue]

Well, its maybe more of a principles question. I absolutely love the look of BK's jackets. I do think a lot of it has to do with the far superior photography that BK uses compared to Aero, but they really do look amazing.

The problem is, I want something that ages slowly. I don't want something designed to show age quickly, even if it lasts for a long time.

Quick question on the 18775 though - does it have a collar stand? I'm presuming that a collar stand means the collar can be made to stand up rigidly?

 

[mulceber]

Totally fair. Just wanted to make sure you didn't walk away thinking these jackets would be falling apart on you after a few years.

The collar stand is a narrow strip of leather that joins the collar to the body of the jacket.

It isn't strictly necessary, and was discarded by most manufacturers as the war progressed and they had to make jackets quickly. So, in answer to your question, the 18775, which was made during the war, does not have a collar stand. Having the stand does make the collar a bit more prominent, but doesn't have much effect on the look of the jacket.

 

[33-1729]

Welcome!

My Eastman Leather Co. (ELC) Werber 33-1729 is an early one and the fit is quite different to the ones being made today (it’s a 44” with a pit-to-pit of 22”). Given how the jacket fit varies by manufacturer, contract, and time (beware of general statements) I would recommend taking a road trip to see and try some at the UK shops that sell them. It was certainly an eye-opener for me to see and try on Real McCoy’s and the latest ELC jackets, if only to compare. I certainly enjoy my ELC 33-1729.

I can’t speak to a G-1, but the fit on an A-2 will make it go from never wanting to take it off to a quick sale. Whatever you do, make certain you get the right fit. You'll know it when you try it.

https://www.americanclassicslondon.com/

https://therealmccoys.com/

 

[mulceber]

Eh, I think it's fair to say that vintage cut A-2 jackets don't fit like modern jackets.

I agree that, if you're in England, a road trip to Eastman and Aero is in order! That's almost certainly the best way to get a good fit.

 

[MrBlue]

Interestingly the dark seal colour on the Real McCoy A2 is much darker than other Dark Seal leathers I've seen.

EDIT: I've just realised something else.

One of the reasons the BK jackets look so good is because the thread colour can be changed to match the knit, or to stand out more.

For example, if you order an Aero Leather A2 in seal brown with rust knit, you have the olive drab stitching clashing with the rust knit. This isn't the case on the BK leather products, where they don't tend to use olive drab stitching as much (just look at the photos). At least, BK say that they use olive drab thread, but looking at the photos, I don't believe them. I don't think it is olive drab in most of their stock photos of the various A2s.

If you change the stitching, you also have to change the bit of cloth that connects the zipper to the leather.

It would be nice if Aero Leather allowed you to customise the thread colour, but I suspect this isn't possible.

 

[mulceber]

I’d check with Ken (the owner) - I don’t know for sure, but I wouldn’t be surprised if you can customize the thread color.

One other thought, if you haven’t totally ruled out Bill Kelso: you might ask Andy if they still have seal Badalassi cowhide in stock. That’s a slightly darker color than their seal Liberty HH, and was not made to age quickly. It’s also some of the most gorgeous leather I’ve ever seen. It’s another possibility.

 

[MrBlue]

To be fair it is only Liberty Horsehide that I've ruled out, not Bill Kelso entirely.

But, that being said, from what I've heard horsehide is more durable and lower maintenance than cowhide/steerhide, and that is attractive to me.

If I could order a Bill Kelso jacket in horsehide leather that wasn't designed to lose its colour quickly, I'd do so in a heartbeat. Other than Victory Horsehide, which is not only unavailable but just way too overpriced.

I've emailed Aero Leather about leather colour (basically want to know what they mean!), when they respond I'll ask about customising the thread colour.

 

[Brettafett]

BK's leathers don't age or lose their colour. Not any more than Eastman's Warhorse, Shinki or Vicenzas will. Aero's Jerky included.
Some horsehides are sealed in a way that make them quite resistant to layered wear, like Lost World's horse, or Cockpit even.

If you rubbed and rubbed a Liberty hide jacket, some surface areas may rub through showing a lighter hue beneath, but this same thing will happen to any of the other top end makers.
Thats part of what Eastman's Timeworn treatment is all about.

I've had a few Aeros and the seal A-2s, did as all the others, in that after some time, high spots wore off, revealing reddy undertones.
Aero's oil pull can vary, you'll need samples. It can be somewhat motley in appearance and will 'wear-in' super quick! It will also absorb more water (yes, it dries and does no harm to the leather).
I assume Aero's Vicenza to be a lot like Platon's Italian horsehide. Samples I had looked nice. Id ask Are for samples of all horsehides and compare. I'd wager it'd be between their Vicenza and the jerky.

Any jacket will rub off on the high spots if worn in a certain way. All depends on how you use/ abuse the jacket.
(If you wash the jacket, you will likely lose some of the colour, but that's not normal practice).
Horsehide, by nature and character WILL wear in and 'age' over a short bit of time, and develop creases ands character of its own. You can help, hinder or hold this at bay to a certain degree if you want.
Most prefer the natural wore-in look.

Goatskin is quite robust, takes longer to wear in, age... and is more resistant generally, to rubbing off on high spots and creasing in. Goat takes a beating.
(this does depend on the goat. You can get goat treated in a way that show wear easier and faster....)

The mouton collar on G-1s, M-422a and the like can be quite warm. Makes a good wind-breaker. But this is one reason to consider an A-2 as a more all-round wearer.

 

[mulceber]

Yup, would agree on all of that. I'd also add that horsehide and cowhide are pretty interchangeable in terms of durability and character, to the point where you need a DNA test to tell for sure. There's a whole section of Eastman's guide to original A-2 jackets about how they had to do DNA tests to figure out what some originals were made of. The quality and toughness of horse- and cowhide come down more to how they're tanned. A cheap horsehide will be inferior to a fancy cowhide, and vice versa. I suspect Horsehide's reputation in large part comes from the fact that it's used almost exclusively in high-end leather goods, whereas cowhide is ubiquitous.

 

[Brettafett]

Yes, and remember, you can request leather samples from most of these makers.
Its a great idea to do this and compare.

 

[Micawber]

When it comes to advice you'll be spoiled for choice. Aero's customer service is hard to beat and are always willing to talk on the phone and part of the same land mass. Drop a line to Ken via here or pick up the tellingbone and have a chat. ELC, are good, pricey but good and of course on the same land mass also. Customer service is good - depends on who you speak to. Repeat customers tend to attract more attention IMHO.