Rarest of the Rare

[Ed Rooney]

I'm visiting the in-laws and my daughter in college for a few weeks, and got a chance to prowl an old school Army/Navy surplus store. they were light on flight gear, with just a few tan CWU-27 flight suits and NO MA-1s or CWU-36 or 45s. Lots of everything else from WWII to today. I did find 3 or 4 of a jacket that I never saw in person before.

Behold the Nomex Woodland Aviation BDU field jacket.

 

[MaydayWei]

Never seen that before. Any other oddities of note?

 

[Ed Rooney]

Never seen that before. Any other oddities of note?

The owner said that the old vets would come in and ask for Marine dress blues in a size 54. He would shake his head and laugh, and tell them most Marines wore a 38 or 40.

 

[Erwin]

It is not a rare jacket, and cannot be called M-65, sorry [no integrated hood, which is distinctive for the M-65 system]. You can call as you want. Even contracts with different fiber blends [nomex, kevlar, and p-140] are comparably easy to get. To be precise, it is "JACKET, AIRCREW, COLD WEATHER, WITH REMOVABLE LINER, AND HOOD" with MIL-DTL-31010 from (22 MAY 1995) [http://everyspec.com/MIL-SPECS/MIL-SPECS-MIL-DTL/download.php?spec=MIL-DTL-31010.030574.pdf].

 

[Erwin]

It should be called like MIL-DTL-31010 indicated.

 

[CombatWombat]

Wait this is rare?
I've got this, the shirt and the trousers
I had a hard time finding them here in Australia but it seemed like every disposal store in NC had quite a bit of these and the ACU equivalent

 

[Thomas Koehle]

Never heard/seen of this variant before - always a good source of knowledge around here

 

[MauldinFan]

I saw several of them being worn when I was at JRTC at Ft Polk, supporting the 101st AB in 2000, but never saw them after that.

 

[Erwin]

It is interesting that even some USMC servicemen still call this wrongly M-65

I can assume that for wearers it doesn't make a difference what kind of field jacket was given to you [with zipper or without in the collar]. I found this video a while ago, interesting to see various field jackets in use.

 

[Shanghai-Mayne]

If my memory served me right, it’s outshell fabric as same as nomex flying shirt (woodland camo).

 

[Erwin]

That's correct Shanghai-Mayne, it should be the same fabric as per the information from the labels.

 

[Shanghai-Mayne]

Thank you Erwin.

 

[Ed Rooney]

The issue with these is that the regular M65 is fairly water and snow resistant, whereas nomex is basically a sponge. The only upside to this jacket is fire resistance, otherwise, aircrews had 2 better options to wear (M65 or Gore-Tex) until they started the engines.

 

[MauldinFan]

The issue with these is that the regular M65 is fairly water and snow resistant, whereas nomex is basically a sponge. The only upside to this jacket is fire resistance, otherwise, aircrews had 2 better options to wear (M65 or Gore-Tex) until they started the engines.

I've often said that Nomex is also heated in the summer and air-conditioned in the winter. It's intended purpose of keeping you from burning to death too early aside, it's utterly worthless for comfort.
I wore Nomex a few times in the Army, as the tankers used them and I went up in some helicopters (with a few less proper landings - or landings at all - that I should have had) and I promise you, comfort just isn't there.

 

[Ed Rooney]

The old flight suits were paper thin. You pretty much needed to wear waffle long johns in winter. The newer ones made with a bit of gore-tex have a bit more substance to them, to your detriment in summer. I was not a big flight suit fan. It was fine for drill weekends and AFTPs, but garbage in the field. I wanted a good 2 piece.

 

[Rutger]

I've often said that Nomex is also heated in the summer and air-conditioned in the winter. It's intended purpose of keeping you from burning to death too early aside, it's utterly worthless for comfort.
I wore Nomex a few times in the Army, as the tankers used them and I went up in some helicopters (with a few less proper landings - or landings at all - that I should have had) and I promise you, comfort just isn't there.

I suppose you're not referring to all nomex clothing? Because I find the CWU-45 and CWU-36 very well suited for their intended purposes. Both are my daily wearers depending on weather of course. They are totally not water resistant, unforunately.

 

[Shanghai-Mayne]

Nomex underwear, summer vision. Winter vision is thicker, it looks like padded one piece flight suit.

 

[Ed Rooney]

In my case I was just referring to the flight suit. The CWU-45 and the Army Tanker jackets were indeed pretty warm - but not as warm as an MA-1.

In TG 2 I was surprised to see Maverick and Rooster running around in the snow. I think they would have been soaking wet and hypothermic long before they found the F-14.