Question re: patching an Apollo jacket...

Discussion in 'Repros' started by ButteMT61, Apr 17, 2018.

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  1. DiamondDave

    DiamondDave Active Member

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    713
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    Tulsa, OK
    Good Catch Jay, I knew there was something in the center but couldn’t make it out. Sadly G&B didn’t have that stamp as an option, but now I know where to get them.

    DD


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  2. Thomas Koehle

    Thomas Koehle Well-Known Member

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    Second that!
     
  3. Thomas Koehle

    Thomas Koehle Well-Known Member

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    BTW: can anybody post a pic of a fully geared up Apollo Jacket?
     
  4. DiamondDave

    DiamondDave Active Member

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    Here is my version, as well as Jim Lovell's jacket. The latter is an original "Type 1" jacket by Land Manufacturing in Topeka KS. They apparently made 5 different iterations of this jacket, with slightly different details on each.
    This "Type 1" jacket has the exposed zipper on the cigarette pocket, in brass, and white stitching throughout the construction. Sometimes seen with khaki tape on the main zip as well as the walnut color as represented here.
    Types 1's seem to always have nickel plated brass snaps by United Carr.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Skyhawk

    Skyhawk Well-Known Member

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  6. ButteMT61

    ButteMT61 Well-Known Member

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    @DiamondDave - I notice that the latch on the bottom crosses over the knits on yours. Is that just a test jacket thing or were they done both ways?
     
  7. DiamondDave

    DiamondDave Active Member

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    My test was built on the AF standard. I didn’t know the tabs were shorter and wider on the originals. It has been rectified and was a one off thing.

    DD


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  8. colekwok

    colekwok Active Member

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    London UK
    DD, are you starting to take order now?
     
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  9. CBI

    CBI Well-Known Member

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    DD - excellent jacket BTW!!!!!
     
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  10. DiamondDave

    DiamondDave Active Member

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    Cole,

    On a limited basis, not quite ready to go wide with these just yet. What are ya looking for?

    DD


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  11. EmergencyIan

    EmergencyIan Active Member

    No name...NASA patch only.

    - Ian
     
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  12. colekwok

    colekwok Active Member

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    272
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    London UK
    Similar for me, NASA patch, probably name tag without name.
     
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  13. herk115

    herk115 Active Member

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    253
    I would put any name or wing on it you want, as long as you tell the truth if questioned ("It's a reproduction and I'm a collector and big fan of the space program"). No one has ever said a thing to me about wearing a winged/named/patched Apollo-era jacket, but if they do, I'm prepared to tell them, "If I was trying to impersonate an Apollo astronaut I'd have to be 90 years old." (As I type this I just heard that Alan Bean has passed away at age 86). The jacket doesn't look right without the name tag. Since the tag is removable you might have a few done. One with your name and a wing, one with an astronaut's name and a wing, etc., and wear each one as appropriate. I sometimes wear my name, but just as often I wear a pseudonym, and sometimes just a call sign. If you still feel the wings are improper, you can wear an original style name tag which just had first two initials and last name, with "M.S.C. N.A.S.A." below (note the periods). Note that when this tag was worn, it was on the right chest with the white-bordered NASA meatball on the left chest.

    We don't have any problem naming, winging, and patching our A-2s, and I see no difference with a NASA jacket. As I said, just be honest if asked. And that's from an air force veteran who had to earn his wings just as was stated in the post above. I've asked NASA headquarters about this a couple of times over the decades, and each time their answer boiled down to "Go right ahead. We appreciate the free advertising."
     
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  14. Greg Gale

    Greg Gale Well-Known Member

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    Interesting points about the name. I see it a bit differently though:

    Your name = you're pretending to be an astronaut
    A famous astronaut's name = you're obviously not pretending, but you're paying a tribute to that great man. Good conversation starter too.

    I have a Memphis Belle A2, nose art, patches and all, and I put "R.K.Morgan" on the nametag, not my own name. Otherwise I would be pretending to be part of the Belle's crew. But this is just my 2 cents.
     
  15. herk115

    herk115 Active Member

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    253
    Greg, with all due respect, I think you guys are making a much bigger deal out of this than it warrants. Let me make some additional points: NASA sells flight jackets, flight suits, and all of its patches in its own gift shops. They even sell the NASA name tag with NASA wings and your (or any) name embroidered upon. This implies they're okay with us wearing the stuff. I have been personally assured by the NASA General Counsel, face-to-face as a matter of fact, that it's okay to wear this stuff. That takes care of the legal end. Then there's the ethical end, which you bring up. I don't think this will ever be resolved. We're all going to have our own opinions about this. You mention pretending to be an astronaut. Well, as I type this, I'm wearing an ELC A-2 with my name on the name strip. Does this mean I'm pretending to be a WWII aviator? Of course not. That is not my intent at all; it's just that it's my jacket, so it bears my name. It can be argued that if you wear the name of a famous astronaut, you're impersonating that astronaut and using his/her name without permission. A cop that hasn't had his donuts can use that against you if he felt like it. You know, the whole identity theft thing that's going on now. It boils down to personal opinion and personal taste. It's your jacket; you wear it any way you please, and be proud of it. Unlike the A-2, the NASA jacket is not a military uniform. Both current- and Apollo-era jackets are civilian wear and sold retail to anyone who wants them. At worst, you would be accused of impersonating a civilian, and I doubt that would stand up in a court of law, as you happen to be a civilian. As was pointed out in an earlier post in this thread, we wear professional sports jackets and jerseys with our own and the players' names. It's done as a show of support for the team, and as a way to make us feel, in a small way, a part of the team. I see no difference with a NASA jacket. When I wear a NASA jacket it's to show support and feel, in a small way, a part of the space program. As I said earlier, as long as you tell the truth if questioned, you have done nothing wrong, legally or ethically. So if we wear our jackets the way we want, and respect the choice of others who may wear the same jacket differently, the issue is resolved. The bottom line is that nobody but the wearer really cares. I honestly feel there is just much ado about nothing here.
     
  16. ButteMT61

    ButteMT61 Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    There's such an obvious line to me where one pretends or purports to be something vs just a tribute that it's not even on my radar.
    I really just wanted to know what looked better and what guys here thought about it overall as this is likely one of the toughest crowds to ask.
    Many of us have/do/will wear tribute stuff or actual gear worn by fathers, grandfathers, etc. Nobody has an issue with that, and as was stated above, all of the NASA and museums I've been to - a lot of them - all sell this kind of thing.
    Anyone pretending to be someone or wear rank that they didn't earn deserve whatever comes their way.
     
  17. Persimmon

    Persimmon Well-Known Member

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    So after all the replies and thoughts and your comments above....

    What is your plan for the jacket ?
     
  18. Greg Gale

    Greg Gale Well-Known Member

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    @herk115 I guess you're right. Both ways are fine ethically, but both can be taken the wrong way if intended.
     
  19. herk115

    herk115 Active Member

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    It's kind of no-win. No matter what your intentions and how you adorn the jacket, there will always be someone who doesn't like it. It's a hazard of being a collector. That's why I say, within the bounds of ethics and good taste (which only you can define), patch it and nametag it the way you like, the way that makes you feel good, and the way that makes the garment an authentic repro, then ignore the people who have a problem with that.
     
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