Private purchase jacket with painted patch on Navy pilot.

dinomartino1

Well-Known Member
Came across this picture when trying to solve this puzzle.

gettyimages-931274704-1024x1024.jpg


Hawker Hunter Tests
General Albert Boyd (left), senior test pilot of the US Air Force, and Colonel Fred Ascani, chief of the Bomber Flight Test Section during a visit to Britain to familiarise themselves with British aircraft, 5th May 1952. Also pictured is Neville Duke (1922 - 2007), the Hawker chief test pilot (facing camera). The Americans have already flown the Hawker Hunter and hope to fly the Gloster GA5 Delta fighter before leaving.
 

Ken at Aero Leather

Well-Known Member
As Ken said perhaps the hawker sea hunter as more numbers are matching if we are reading them correctly.
"On 2 September 1947, the P.1040 prototype, VP401, sometimes referred to as the Hawker N.7/46 after the related naval specification, conducted its maiden flight from RAF Boscome Down"
If it's anything to do with test flights maybe late 1940s?
I also see it as at the top left VS on right VP401 or VP40, and at the bottom of the patch likeo_O P1040, and it also seems to me that the man who is back standing in 55j14 (look at the shoulders).
But this officer is exactly from the US Navy. Perhaps the jacket as a memory about of some a person or event, like talisman.
I think you are right about the numbers, if so that's irrefutable proof of a connection with the first Hawker prototype, now we need to ID the flier.
 

Otter

Active Member
Orbitals and brows as well as the chin are wrong. I could believe the nose as being squashed if it was on the older photo not the younger. Not Scott.
 

unclegrumpy

Well-Known Member
So I tried blowing the image up a bit and now see what guys are seeing...sort of...

I still do not see any collar rank insignia on the center guy...there should be either single gold or silver bars or double silver bars (like the guy to the left has) on each collar

I see some of the writing at top of the patch, but there looks to be more to it. At the bottom, there are a few more letters before what maybe looks like "VP40"...the first possibly being a "P"

I can't make out whatever is written on the pocket flap

The Hawker prototype connection seems really unlikely. I looked up the plane and the pilots, and saw nothing that would have fit

Crossfield does not fit well either...leaving his face out of the mix, his career does not match well

Also notice that the Kangaroo appears to have an eagle above his head...maybe grasping him by the neck

Another thing to start to factor in to the mix is the date of the photo. The VS squadron designation was dropped in 1943, but then brought back in 1950.

I think we need the source of the photo to get some more clues.
 

Ken at Aero Leather

Well-Known Member
So I tried blowing the image up a bit and now see what guys are seeing...sort of...

I still do not see any collar rank insignia on the center guy...there should be either single gold or silver bars or double silver bars (like the guy to the left has) on each collar

I see some of the writing at top of the patch, but there looks to be more to it. At the bottom, there are a few more letters before what maybe looks like "VP40"...the first possibly being a "P"

I can't make out whatever is written on the pocket flap

The Hawker prototype connection seems really unlikely. I looked up the plane and the pilots, and saw nothing that would have fit

Crossfield does not fit well either...leaving his face out of the mix, his career does not match well

Also notice that the Kangaroo appears to have an eagle above his head...maybe grasping him by the neck

Another thing to start to factor in to the mix is the date of the photo. The VS squadron designation was dropped in 1943, but then brought back in 1950.

I think we need the source of the photo to get some more clues.
Agreed re Crossfield although he does look similar but I'll stick with the Hawker (VP401) for now
To me the Kangaroo appeared to have wings attached rather than a bird/eagle above
You are correct, a source, date or location for the photo would be a huge help................oose.........are you still here?
 

oose

Active Member
Hi all,
Its from the SDASM Archive and all its says is "unidentified navy personel 1940s" so not very helpfull. Here is another one from the same collection.

45633721444_a68029303a_o.jpg


All the best
Stu
 

unclegrumpy

Well-Known Member
Yes...not much help at all. This guy is wearing Navy Medical Corps insignia...but does not have a flight surgeon's wing. Interestingly, his hat looks like it might have an aviation green cover...so he is likely a doctor, but not a qualified flight surgeon.
 

dinomartino1

Well-Known Member
A lot of the photos which may be at the same location have the word consolidated in the title as does the one of the flight jacket, some are dated 1950, the landing field photos are called consolidated flight line or facilities.
So possibly Consolidated aircraft San Diego 1950.





32484732098_7a745bcd0b_o.jpg

pictionid73380809 - catalogkemp00005 - title--consolidated fascilities - b36 flight line ca. 1950 -
32484760528_615744c23f_o.jpg

pictionid73382032 - catalogkemp00061 - title--consolidated unidentified navy personel 1940s
 
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unclegrumpy

Well-Known Member
A lot of the photos which may be at the same location have the word consolidated in the title as does the one of the flight jacket, some are dated 1950, the landing field photos are called consolidated flight line or facilities.
So possibly Consolidated aircraft San Diego 1950.
The 1950 date fits with the photo.

What also fits is my previous thought that the fellow in the center might be a civilian technical representative. It was common for aircraft company employees....maintenance, engineers, and test pilots...to intermingle with military units...especially when they were introducing new technology or aircraft....and wear military uniforms when they were doing it.

Consolidated Aircraft Company is a big clue. It does not help much with the patch, but it does start to explain the lack of rank insignia and the civilian jacket. That said, the kangaroo still almost certainly points to an Australian connection. It starts to make me wonder if the Australian's were buying aircraft from Consolidated, and if this guy may have been a part of that effort....training or ?
 

dinomartino1

Well-Known Member
They did buy Lockheed Neptunes from 1951-3 and the RAAF crews flew them back to Australia, but no other US from that time.
Normally an RAAF pilot would be wearing his own uniform.
Might also be someone from a navy sqn with planes there for conversion to other uses, maitenece, testing etc.
Someone who served in the Pacific or Oz in WW2?
 
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B-Man2

Well-Known Member
I understand, everyone wants to distinguish himself and show his rightness.
But there are objective facts.
1. We do not know who this person is.
2. We do not know the manufacturer of the jacket.
3. We do not know squadron of the patch.
4. We do not know what name is written on the jacket pocket.
My opinion on each of the issues.
A person behaves confidently and enjoys authority.
1. A person is certainly a US Navy officer, perhaps a senior officer (commander) of the US Navy, this is not a civilian, and not a foreign officer.
2. The jacket is civilian and made in the USA (Desmond's?), or GB, Australia ... Most likely it was acquired by this officer in the early 1930s, when the US Navy had no regular jackets.
3.4. The officer served abroad in a friendly country during combat operations. The officer had combat experience before the outbreak of WW2. It is possible that this jacket is a gift from a friend. Perhaps this jacket is the talisman and pride of this officer. Moreover, I think that this jacket and patch is the envy of others. That is why he wears it openly and proudly.
Hi
The only thing I would bring to your attention is that if he were a Commander the brim of his hat would have gold braid. The link you posted makes that very clear . This guys hat has no braid which once again according to your link makes him somewhere between an Ensign and a Lieutenant Commander. Just pointing this out as your post was attempting to eliminate inaccuracies and narrow down possibilities.
 

Ken at Aero Leather

Well-Known Member
2. The jacket is civilian (almost military) and made in the USA (Desmond's?), or GB, Australia ... .
Sorry Eastwood, if the jacket proves to be American or British made then I've learnt NOTHING about vintage tailoring techniques in the last 50+Years

I'm not necessarily saying it's Australian but it's not European nor is it American or Soviet
 

B-Man2

Well-Known Member
B-Man2 US Navy Officer dress whites.
With all respect intended you are confused.
First you post “look at the wings on his hat,”then delete that post and state that he’s wearing dress whites. The guy has a naval khaki uniform on.
We are talking about the very first photograph in the thread correct??
 

B-Man2

Well-Known Member
Please do not need to catch me on my thoughts that I am writing. The focus is not on me, but on the officer in the photo. Good luck.
PS Take an example from Ken, he always writes on the case and is looking for the truth without catching anyone.
It’s all yours Eastwood . I’m out. I don’t have time for foolishness.
 
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