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Perceived quality

cgreen

Active Member
Hi Everyone, hope you're being treated to nicer weather than what we currently have going here in Southern Ontario - four straight days of rain and cold temps. For the love. If we all think hard enough perhaps we can will it to be spring.

Anyway, I've got a question that I fear might cause an eyebrow raise but I need to ask it anyway.

Last night I found a vintage Hein Gericke for Harley Davidson jacket in grey and deep maroon, which I really loved. The seller wants just shy of $600 for it, which seemed a bit high but okay. Then I saw the label "Made in Korea," and had a moment of pause.

And now the eyebrow raising bit: I think it's safe to say that in the last 50 years China has become a leader in the manufacture and export of various goods, but those goods can sometimes be of lesser quality. Manufacturing in North America and Western Europe (the two places I'm familiar with) is quite expensive so I understand a company's need to move production overseas as a more cost effective route.

But does doing so mean the quality suffers? Are jackets produced in Korea, or India, or Pakistan, or China using the same leather as North American and Western European manufacturers? Are corners cut in the production process to keep the costs down? I know Japan has a very rich history of craftsmanship but I am admittedly in the dark on China and Korea.

In short, is a Harley Davidson jacket produced in North America going to be a better quality garment than one produced outside? I'm asking because I genuinely don't know and I don't want to pass up opportunities for cool vintage finds by being ignorant on the perception of quality. Looking for everyone's thoughts, thank you. Any anecdotal evidence for or against is welcome. Take care everyone.

Chris
 

Shanghai-Mayne

Well-Known Member
Chris, I am sure , different manufacturing origin would not use the same leather, what exactly the origin of the leather, is dependent on the contract terms. Wish it help.
 

cgreen

Active Member
Thank you, that's the challenge - is it the same quality leather and is the manufacturing process as in-depth? Will you get the same attention to detail and care?

Chris
 

mulceber

Moderator
Well, if you haven't noticed, Chris, the VLJ tends to focus more on military jackets (to the point where some people have suggested it should be renamed the Military Jacket Forum or the Flight Jacket Forum), so I'm not sure how much insight I can offer here, but I do have a few thoughts:
  • Talking about Harley Davidson as a brand is kind of a waste of time, because Harley does not and (to my knowledge) never has made their own jackets. Like Sears and Montgomery Ward before them, they just contract out to get actual leather jacket manufacturers to make jackets for them. I don't know that there 's any consistent pattern to who they contract with, so it could be all over the map.
  • Yes, different companies are going to be using VERY different leathers. A lot of the boutique brands in North America, Europe and Japan are using leather from those countries. A lot of more affordable offerings are no doubt using leather from China, Pakistan etc. as well. And if you're buying a jacket from Pakistan or China, it'll almost certainly be using leather made in those countries, and the quality is going to be highly variable.
  • No idea about jackets made in Korea. I haven't really heard of jackets being made there. It could be more like Chinese manufacturing or more like Japanese manufacturing for all I know.
 

B-Man2

Well-Known Member
Jan (Mulceber)
Nailed the answer perfectly. Harley Davison has never made any of their own boots , clothing or jacket line of products . They were usually made outside the US. He’s also correct about a consistent line of products . Their jackets changed yearly so as to keep up with fashion and to promote the sales of new lines of their products .
 
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cgreen

Active Member
Thank you both, much appreciated. As a general rule then, if I'm interested in vintage pieces am I better off staying with the likes of Lewis Leathers, Bristol, Brimaco, Schott, Brooks, etc? I believe those were all manufactured in North America or Western Europe, yes?
 

Chandler

Well-Known Member
Wasn't Hein Gericke a German company? Or was it just a "brand name" to look pretty on store fronts?

Many years ago a friend of mine bought a HG motorcycle jacket that was pretty sturdy -- I'd bet he still has it. Don't remember looking at where it was manufactured, though.
 

Capt

Well-Known Member
Not sure where HG originated but there down fall whilst financial I believe may be down to there products were just to dam good. All my gear both leather and textile gore tex are like new from back in 2004. Some splattered bug remains on the lighter textile parts but the leather gear is like new.
 

Chandler

Well-Known Member
Not sure where HG originated but there down fall whilst financial I believe may be down to there products were just to dam good. All my gear both leather and textile gore tex are like new from back in 2004. Some splattered bug remains on the lighter textile parts but the leather gear is like new.
Shot themselves in the foot by not "planning obsolescence?" ;)
 

Capt

Well-Known Member
Function over form in there case why buy a new HG every year, hang on using that analogy why have I got all my flight jackets & how have I justified them till nowo_O:D
 

Marc mndt

Well-Known Member
They were usually made outside the US.
Up until the mid 60s they were made in the USA. HD Cycle King, Cycle Champ, One pocket Sportster. A 50s cycle champ in good condition is worth north of $1k. After that quality went downhill quickly with their AMF labeled jackets.

IMG_1185.jpeg

50s horsehide Cycle champ

IMG_1187.jpeg

Elvis wearing his Cycle Champ


IMG_1189.jpeg

60s steerhide AMF label Harley jacket, worth about $125
 

entertainment

Well-Known Member
Well, if you haven't noticed, Chris, the VLJ tends to focus more on military jackets (to the point where some people have suggested it should be renamed the Military Jacket Forum or the Flight Jacket Forum), so I'm not sure how much insight I can offer here, but I do have a few thoughts:
  • Talking about Harley Davidson as a brand is kind of a waste of time, because Harley does not and (to my knowledge) never has made their own jackets. Like Sears and Montgomery Ward before them, they just contract out to get actual leather jacket manufacturers to make jackets for them. I don't know that there 's any consistent pattern to who they contract with, so it could be all over the map.
  • Yes, different companies are going to be using VERY different leathers. A lot of the boutique brands in North America, Europe and Japan are using leather from those countries. A lot of more affordable offerings are no doubt using leather from China, Pakistan etc. as well. And if you're buying a jacket from Pakistan or China, it'll almost certainly be using leather made in those countries, and the quality is going to be highly variable.
  • No idea about jackets made in Korea. I haven't really heard of jackets being made there. It could be more like Chinese manufacturing or more like Japanese manufacturing for all I know.
There was a period before China became the dominant location for outsourcing the manufacturing of clothing when a fair number of garments were made in Korea. Then, I think the manufacturers there realized that electronics and appliances were much more lucrative so they refocused on those industries. I would not assume that something made in Korea is necessarily good or bad. Each item would have to be evaluated on a case by case basis depending on what the retailer contracted for. But there is a good chance that quality is pretty decent.

I went to Korea a few times in the late nineties. At the time, they were pretty famous for knocking off women's handbags from famous designers. According to someone I sat next to on a plane, the quality was excellent. He made a fair amount of money bringing them back from his business trips and selling them in the States at a big markup. Which is all to say that there were probably some highly skilled leather workers back in the day.

BTW, there is a pretty good book by Rin Tanaka about Harley Davidson clothing but it only covers the period up to about 1960. Despite what the text on this webpage says, the actual book title says 1920s-1950s! And this is Rin Tanaka's own website. You can flip through a few pages of the book if you scroll down.

 

dbtk44

Member
I've seen a few leather jackets that were made in Korea, and they were quite well made...and nice leather too. Unfortunately (or fortunately) they were all covering veterans who spent time in Korea, so they weren't for sale. But they were very good, solid pieces I wouldn't think twice about buying if I had the chance and it was a good price.
 

JonnyCrow

Well-Known Member
Well, if you haven't noticed, Chris, the VLJ tends to focus more on military jackets (to the point where some people have suggested it should be renamed the Military Jacket Forum or the Flight Jacket Forum), so I'm not sure how much insight I can offer here, but I do have a few thoughts:
  • Talking about Harley Davidson as a brand is kind of a waste of time, because Harley does not and (to my knowledge) never has made their own jackets. Like Sears and Montgomery Ward before them, they just contract out to get actual leather jacket manufacturers to make jackets for them. I don't know that there 's any consistent pattern to who they contract with, so it could be all over the map.
  • Yes, different companies are going to be using VERY different leathers. A lot of the boutique brands in North America, Europe and Japan are using leather from those countries. A lot of more affordable offerings are no doubt using leather from China, Pakistan etc. as well. And if you're buying a jacket from Pakistan or China, it'll almost certainly be using leather made in those countries, and the quality is going to be highly variable.
  • No idea about jackets made in Korea. I haven't really heard of jackets being made there. It could be more like Chinese manufacturing or more like Japanese manufacturing for all I know.
Dr Marten boots have contracted out for a long time, even camera company top names now contract to Korea and China, I have a early fujiilm x Pro made in Japan, they're now made in China,
 

Shanghai-Mayne

Well-Known Member
Dr Marten boots have contracted out for a long time, even camera company top names now contract to Korea and China, I have a early fujiilm x Pro made in Japan, they're now made in China,
Fuji or another Japanese big brand, bought serval old German lens brand at latter 90s, and their lens were actually good.
 

JonnyCrow

Well-Known Member
Fuji or another Japanese big brand, bought serval old German lens brand at latter 90s, and their lens were actually good.
I know we're in the age of digital but I have a mint yashica electro gt camera from 1969, very early space age looking, incidentally used by the Peter Parker spiderman character in the first movie Toby Macguire ;)
 
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