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Original Roughwear - 'Eastman Swoop collar?'

269sqnhudson

Active Member
I found this picture in a gallery while trolling the web but have a feeling it belongs to a forum member. If so, a) thanks and b) do you mind if I use it here? :)

Looks awfully like the 'Eastman Swoop' that you mentioned in another thread rotenhahn. (Quote: "the internal structure visible in the collar of the folded leather has what to me is the dreaded Eastman swoop- a thick foldover which swoops to a point at the collar point")

Original:
27752.jpg


Eastman Swoop
ELCrw27752_neck1-1.jpg
 

Chandler

Well-Known Member
Heavens! ;)

Bigger question, however, can you read the spec label clearly enough to be sure it's a Rough Wear?

Chandler
 

Roughwear

Well-Known Member
Well it looks as if the jacket has been hanging, gathering dust since the war. Yes I can make out enough from the label to tell its a RW 27752 A2. It also has the characteristic collar stand, orange coloured lining and typical collar.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
It definitely has a little swoop on the long side of the collar but the short side of the collar going into the windflap has no swoop that I can see. The Eastman starts at least 1/2" out at the windflap and swoops down- the original is relatively even at 3/8" or so (I'm guessing) and then dives in at the very end. I can guarantee you the original has the little leather tab and the Eastman doesn't! I'll see if I can post some better illustrations for you :D !
 
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Anonymous

Guest
fd3d_12.jpg

A typical Eastman collar showing the swoop- the folded part on the inside starts out fat (1/2"?) and then gracefully swoops to the tip.
qqq101.jpg

Here's an original with an unusually fat folded piece on the inside- probably 1/2" also. See how it stays 1/2" thick all the way down the front of the collar and then goes in radically at the very last? No swoop!
IMG_2279-1.jpg

A more typical Roughwear collar- the folded piece in the inside of the collar is around 1/4" to 3/8" and follows the contour of the collar evenly more or less and then goes in at the tip more or less at an angle. Definitely a different effect than the Eastman swoop IMO and not that hard to copy I would think. The Eastman swoop is found on all Eastmans regardless of contract- it's one of their signature moves.
 

fishmeok

Well-Known Member
If you REALLY want to get technical (and I know how people on this board like to keep things vague) that "swoop" is called the seam allowance- the material left outside the inner (the invisible stitching where the leather fold over itself) stitch line. You need at least 3/8 inch seam allowance if you want to top stitch (the visible edge stitching) a jacket seam because the sewing machine presser foot needs a level surface to make stitches on. Also need enough SA to allow the leather to fold over on itself.

It looks like on the Roughwear the kept the SA to about 1/2 inch all the way to the tip of the collar and then slit and trimmed the leather to allow the point to form flat. On the Eastman they seem to use a gradual trimming of the SA down to the collar point.

Cheers
Mark
 
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Anonymous

Guest
fishmeok said:
If you REALLY want to get technical (and I know how people on this board like to keep things vague) that "swoop" is called the seam allowance- the material left outside the inner (the invisible stitching where the leather fold over itself) stitch line. You need at least 3/8 inch seam allowance if you want to top stitch (the visible edge stitching) a jacket seam because the sewing machine presser foot needs a level surface to make stitches on. Also need enough SA to allow the leather to fold over on itself.

It looks like on the Roughwear the kept the SA to about 1/2 inch all the way to the tip of the collar and then slit and trimmed the leather to allow the point to form flat. On the Eastman they seem to use a gradual trimming of the SA down to the collar point.

Cheers
Mark
Thanks for the very good verbalization of what I was trying to explain!
 

Chandler

Well-Known Member
rotenhahn said:
It definitely has a little swoop on the long side of the collar but the short side of the collar going into the windflap has no swoop that I can see.

Huh? Sure it does. Not sure how you're disqualifying it (or the other images you posted, 'cause I can see them there too), but it's certainly there.

27752seam.jpg


Chandler
 

Chandler

Well-Known Member
Roughwear said:
Yes I can make out enough from the label to tell its a RW 27752 A2.

Well, you must have a better screen than I, because I copied the pic, blew it up, sharpened and pushed contrast and highlights and can maybe make out "S. Army."

Chandler
 

Tariacuri

Member
NERD!!!!!!!!


fishmeok said:
If you REALLY want to get technical (and I know how people on this board like to keep things vague) that "swoop" is called the seam allowance- the material left outside the inner (the invisible stitching where the leather fold over itself) stitch line. You need at least 3/8 inch seam allowance if you want to top stitch (the visible edge stitching) a jacket seam because the sewing machine presser foot needs a level surface to make stitches on. Also need enough SA to allow the leather to fold over on itself.

It looks like on the Roughwear the kept the SA to about 1/2 inch all the way to the tip of the collar and then slit and trimmed the leather to allow the point to form flat. On the Eastman they seem to use a gradual trimming of the SA down to the collar point.

Cheers
Mark
 

269sqnhudson

Active Member
Chandler said:
Roughwear said:
Yes I can make out enough from the label to tell its a RW 27752 A2.

Well, you must have a better screen than I, because I copied the pic, blew it up, sharpened and pushed contrast and highlights and can maybe make out "S. Army."

Chandler

Chandler, the website I found it on had a ton of pics of it and it's named as a 27752. I didn't want to post more because I'm not sure who owns them - It's got a nice 340th bomb group patch on the chest, all covered in dust and crud
 

269sqnhudson

Active Member
Tariacuri said:
NERD!!!!!!!!


fishmeok said:
If you REALLY want to get technical (and I know how people on this board like to keep things vague) that "swoop" is called the seam allowance- the material left outside the inner (the invisible stitching where the leather fold over itself) stitch line. You need at least 3/8 inch seam allowance if you want to top stitch (the visible edge stitching) a jacket seam because the sewing machine presser foot needs a level surface to make stitches on. Also need enough SA to allow the leather to fold over on itself.

It looks like on the Roughwear the kept the SA to about 1/2 inch all the way to the tip of the collar and then slit and trimmed the leather to allow the point to form flat. On the Eastman they seem to use a gradual trimming of the SA down to the collar point.

Cheers
Mark

I think the first pic I posted has a gradual slope like the Eastman
 

Chandler

Well-Known Member
269sqnhudson said:
Chandler, the website I found it on had a ton of pics of it and it's named as a 27752.

Okay, I'll take your word for it. Just playing devil's advocate because the image isn't very confirming.

Chandler
 

fishmeok

Well-Known Member
Tariacuri said:
NERD!!!!!!!!


How's that Albanian Tummy holding up there sport? Hork all over that nice new Doniger yet?

Ask Kiki who's the nerd....

Sorry everyone else, that was a liitle OT :D

Cheers
Mark
 
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Anonymous

Guest
269:
I think the first pic I posted has a gradual slope like the Eastman
I think that's wishful thinking but even if it is it's not the usual pattern...
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Chandler said:
rotenhahn said:
269:
I think that's wishful thinking

I think he's gotch'a -- and you don't wanna give in! :D

Chandler
OK One more time- look at the front of the collar on the windflap side (right side as we face it) and you see that the SA (to use the new term- thanks fishmeok!) mor or less is the same 3/8" 'til the very bottom. It doesn't start out 1/2"+ and then dive to a point like an Eastman... you know what I mean? Again- even if it did- why would a repro maker copy something unusual instead of copying the usual pattern of a contract? Just because there are a couple of original Aeros with uncovered snap backs doesn't mena that should be the norm on a repro- most Aeros had covered ones! I've even heard of Dubows with short rounded collars- would you want that to be what a repro Dubow copied? Sorry- can't give in- won't on this one... :p
 

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