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Original Dubow pocket spacing question

Did Dubow have different contracts that made the pocket spacing different on them? The reason I ask is that I've read that a characteristic of Dubows is the offset pocket spacing from the windflap. Here is an original showing this.
origdubow.jpg


But here is another Dubow where it doesn't seem to have this offset spacing. And Airfrog's Goodwear, which was patterned off of an original doesn't appear to show it either. Was there that much varience or is it because of different Dubow contracts let at different times?
chocdubow.jpg


fedoralover
 

airfrogusmc

Well-Known Member
I think John said its measured from the zipper. On a size 52 mine and Pauls original are both 5 inches from the zipper which in under the windflap. You can find so much variance in originals.
 
Well, it must be as you say Allen, the wide variety within the contract.

Here's a quote from Johns website on the Dubow. "The pocket position is also interesting, as Dubow would position them with even spacing from the cut edge of the wind flap, not the zipper." So I guess when I order mine either choice will still be correct, as they seem to appear both ways.

fedoralover
 

Roughwear

Well-Known Member
Here's a picture of a 27798 Dubow which I used to own and you can clearly see the same feature on it-left pocket nearer the zip.

001.jpg
 

SteveN

Active Member
Speaking of Dubow, how common is the pointy collar? The seal Dubow in the first post seems to have the same pointy collar as my RMNZ repo, but the others don't. The pockets are the RMNZ are equally spaced though.

- SteveN
 

Roughwear

Well-Known Member
SteveN said:
Speaking of Dubow, how common is the pointy collar? The seal Dubow in the first post seems to have the same pointy collar as my RMNZ repo, but the others don't. The pockets are the RMNZ are equally spaced though.

- SteveN

If you look at John Chapman's CD the earlier ac-20960 Dubow has an extremely pointed collar. There was a slight variation within contracts. This maybe down to the skill of the cutters and is seen on other A2 contracts, such as the Doniger.
 

shanghai joe

New Member
also the size of the jkt matters.........I think the first jkt on the mannequin is a size 40....I do know who it belonged to but discretion assured ;) , the one with replaced cuffs.......I'm sure by now it's have a new keeper!







talk less than thou knowest........show less then thou owneth
 

Roughwear

Well-Known Member
shanghai joe said:
also the size of the jkt matters.........I think the first jkt on the mannequin is a size 40....I do know who it belonged to but discretion assured ;) , the one with replaced cuffs.......I'm sure by now it's have a new keeper!







talk less than thou knowest........show less then thou owneth

My old Dubow was a size 40. It would seem as if the varied pocket spacing was a feature of the 27798 contract irrespective of size.
 

airfrogusmc

Well-Known Member
Fedora when I had my GW Dubow made I asked John to match Pauls original as closely as he could. I think there are so many variations with'n contracts because of human error etc. On original 27798 a rounded collar on one side and a pointy one on the other of the same jacket. One pocket higher than the other. A pointed pocket flap on one pocket and a sculpted one on the other but when you tink of how many they were crank'n out on that 27798 contract its not really that bad. I have one thats almost an exact match to a known original at the same size...And Pauls the real lucky guy, he has the original and the copy of that original...
 

Grant

Well-Known Member
Here's a photo of my old RMNZ Dubow. The horsehide they were using way back then was very soft, pliable and had alot of grainy/ smooth areas. Grant
dubow.jpg
 

shanghai joe

New Member
airfrogusmc said:
Fedora when I had my GW Dubow made I asked John to match Pauls original as closely as he could. I think there are so many variations with'n contracts because of human error etc. On original 27798 a rounded collar on one side and a pointy one on the other of the same jacket. One pocket higher than the other. A pointed pocket flap on one pocket and a sculpted one on the other but when you tink of how many they were crank'n out on that 27798 contract its not really that bad. I have one thats almost an exact match to a known original at the same size...And Pauls the real lucky guy, he has the original and the copy of that original...



yep. there was a war goin' on........like they have the luxury of quality control!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Oh brother- this again! Eyes that do not see! 99.999999% of Dubow 27798s had
CLOSE in pockets- 3" at most from that windflap edge! RMNZ and Lost Worlds have
pockets spaced WAY too far apart- in the case of Lost Worlds WAAAAAY too far
apart. 1" (2" in the case of LW) makes a big difference visually- it changes the
whole look of the jacket. "Human error" or not neither LW or RMNZs Dubows look
correct when worn- and that's just because of the pocket flap mistake. Check out Froggy;s 2 jackets- one looks correct- the other well- not so.

airfrogusmc said:
And my McCoys was from the edge of the storm flap.
But 6 inches or so...
frontLOW.jpg
_MG_0590.jpg


The size 52 is obviously an exception but even this jacket doesn't have the pockets UNDER the arms like Lost Worlds and Airfrog's RMNZ. As far as other sizes- I'd say from 46 (for sure) down 2 1/2" to 3" from windflap was the norm.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Fedora Lover:
Well, it must be as you say Allen, the wide variety within the contract.

There may have been wide variety within the contract about certain things such as leather and color but as far as I can tell pocket positioning on the 27798 was pretty much "put the pockets around 2 or 3" from the windflap edge Sam". Smaller jackets seem to be a little closer but as they get bigger the rule is pocket spacing is measured from the windflap (2 1/2" to 3") - a size 40 and a size 46 will both have pockets about the same distance from the windflap edge. RMNZ and especially Lost Worlds use the underarm seam as the constant so as jackets get bigger the pockets get further apart- not right!
 

greyhound52

New Member
Here are my Dubows. First, a GW made clone using the same HH as Allen's. The second is my RMNZ HH. Both are size 46 but you know how that is. Notice the spacing difference. The jackets are not quite the same size as the GW is a tad bigger.


dubowflat.jpg


dubow.jpg
 
rotenhahn said:
Fedora Lover:
Well, it must be as you say Allen, the wide variety within the contract.

There may have been wide variety within the contract about certain things such as leather and color but as far as I can tell pocket positioning on the 27798 was pretty much "put the pockets around 2 or 3" from the windflap edge Sam". Smaller jackets seem to be a little closer but as they get bigger the rule is pocket spacing is measured from the windflap (2 1/2" to 3") - a size 40 and a size 46 will both have pockets about the same distance from the windflap edge. RMNZ and especially Lost Worlds use the underarm seam as the constant so as jackets get bigger the pockets get further apart- not right!


Thanks rotenhahn and all the others responding. Seeing the comparitive pics helps put things in perspective.

Here's a pic I just found of what would appear to be a Dubow with the offset pockets on the guy towards the right.
060217-F-1234P-011.jpg

fedoralover
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
greyhound52 said:
Here are my Dubows. First, a GW made clone using the same HH as Allen's. The second is my RMNZ HH. Both are size 46 but you know how that is. Notice the spacing difference. The jackets are not quite the same size as the GW is a tad bigger.


dubowflat.jpg


dubow.jpg

Perfect illustration of my point- 1" or even 1/2" make a big difference! The RMNZ is a nice jacket- but it looks generic and not like a WW2 Dubow really- or if so only generally. Epaulets too thin- collar too big- pockets too far apart. In epaulets and collars even 1/4" makes a big difference to a freak like me! The GW looks dead on- the RMNZ as if they made it from someone's verbal description.
 

airfrogusmc

Well-Known Member
rotenhahn said:
Fedora Lover:
Well, it must be as you say Allen, the wide variety within the contract.

There may have been wide variety within the contract about certain things such as leather and color but as far as I can tell pocket positioning on the 27798 was pretty much "put the pockets around 2 or 3" from the windflap edge Sam". Smaller jackets seem to be a little closer but as they get bigger the rule is pocket spacing is measured from the windflap (2 1/2" to 3") - a size 40 and a size 46 will both have pockets about the same distance from the windflap edge. RMNZ and especially Lost Worlds use the underarm seam as the constant so as jackets get bigger the pockets get further apart- not right!

Its 5" on Pauls original size 52...Original jackets that large are RARE INDEED. and Jeff is right on this on. My pockets are not under the arm as was with my RMNZ and looks much different in my opinion. I too thought maybe the symetric pocket placement on Pauls original and our clones might have been unigue to large jackets but
chocdubow.jpg

I'm sure that there are many example of both. HUMAN ERROR?
 

Grant

Well-Known Member
No underarm pocket on my RMNZ. Maybe they drifted a little off when they made your larger size jacket?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
airfrogusmc said:
rotenhahn said:
Fedora Lover:
Well, it must be as you say Allen, the wide variety within the contract.

There may have been wide variety within the contract about certain things such as leather and color but as far as I can tell pocket positioning on the 27798 was pretty much "put the pockets around 2 or 3" from the windflap edge Sam". Smaller jackets seem to be a little closer but as they get bigger the rule is pocket spacing is measured from the windflap (2 1/2" to 3") - a size 40 and a size 46 will both have pockets about the same distance from the windflap edge. RMNZ and especially Lost Worlds use the underarm seam as the constant so as jackets get bigger the pockets get further apart- not right!

Its 5" on Pauls original size 52...Original jackets that large are RARE INDEED. and Jeff is right on this on. My pockets are not under the arm as was with my RMNZ and looks much different in my opinion. I too thought maybe the symetric pocket placement on Pauls original and our clones might have been unigue to large jackets but
chocdubow.jpg

I'm sure that there are many example of both. HUMAN ERROR?

Aww Come on Allen- I thought we'd take a trip down memory lane! :lol: Just kidding- to be honest I've learned alot since our days arguing about Dubows- especially about their potential variability. I always challenged you to show me 5" pocket spacing on a Dubow and voila!
 
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