Origin of Flying Tiger Logo

[2jakes]

Entry for March 13, 1942...page 127...

..."Took a ride over to the main hostel on the other side
of the city to pick up our new AVG insignia that
Walt Disney designed for us--"

I checked further & found the name of Roy Williams @
Disney art department who designed the logo.
This was the "Roy", I remember when as a kid watching
The Mickey Mouse Club , weekdays on ABC in the 50s.

 

[TankBuster]

Roy came up with 95% of the insignia but Hank Porter put the finishing touches on it and turned it in and received credit for the design.

 

[EMBLEMHUNTER]

I think in the book titled "Disney Dons Dogtags" there's a brief story about him and the AVG emblem.
Johnny

 

[a2jacketpatches]

I think in the book titled "Disney Dons Dogtags" there's a brief story about him and the AVG emblem.
Johnny

Yes, it also has a bunch of proposed designs that never made it. I'll snap a photo of the page and post in the morning.

 

[2jakes]

Roy came up with 95% of the insignia but Hank Porter put the finishing touches on it and turned it in and received credit for the design.

I'm not doubting you....but if Roy did 95 % of the insignia & not given credit , somehow
it just doesn't add up.
In my younger days I worked in commercial art & retired now , I do oil paints as
a hobby. On occasion , I have sold some . I know that if you were to design 95% of
the artwork & I did only the finishing touches...I wouldn't take credit for it at all. I
don't think any artist would. Call it pride or whatever . I would feel undeserving of it.
But then , I don't know the rules or regulations of what transpired.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

Heading to the shop right now so maybe Dons Dog tags will shed some light on the subject.

I was just talking to a guy last night about how Kinkaid? Has trained help jam out paintings in his name and we also talked about how some authors write an outline for a book and have "ghost" writers fill in the blanks. Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[TankBuster]

Roy came up with 95% of the insignia but Hank Porter put the finishing touches on it and turned it in and received credit for the design.

I'm not doubting you....but if Roy did 95 % of the insignia & not given credit , somehow
it just doesn't add up.
In my younger days I worked in commercial art & retired now , I do oil paints as
a hobby. On occasion , I have sold some . I know that if you were to design 95% of
the artwork & I did only the finishing touches...I wouldn't take credit for it at all. I
don't think any artist would. Call it pride or whatever . I would feel undeserving of it.
But then , I don't know the rules or regulations of what transpired.

I just went thru my book again and Roy did come up with the original idea for the logo and was originally given the credit by Chenault. Apparently Hank Porter actually drew it up though leaving the question of who should actually receive the credit for the AVG logo. Hank Porter was accepted by many to have come up with the whole logo and sketched it on his own, when in reality it was designed by Roy Williams. This is all per the Disney ww2 insignia book Disney Dons Dogtags.

 

[Anonymous]

What's interesting is some of the pilots did not like the decals for the planes. Some only wanted the Tiger without the V. They were wondering why whoever in the news media did not understand that the teeth, were sharks teeth, not tigers.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

In this book it says how the Chinese name is equivalent to Flying Tiger Sharks, but Fei Hu means Flying Tigers as confirmed by one of my Chinese customers. Who knows how it got mixed up? stories change within 24 hours never mind 60+ years ago

 

[Jaguar46]

Reading this article clears up for me why/how the shark teeth on the P-40 aircraft got there. The unit was to be The Flying Tiger Sharks. (allegedly as it was known as in the popular Chinese press).

 

[art of a2]

In this book it says how the Chinese name is equivalent to Flying Tiger Sharks, but Fei Hu means Flying Tigers as confirmed by one of my Chinese customers. Who knows how it got mixed up? stories change within 24 hours never mind 60+ years ago

This a link to my version of this patch

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150935766144&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

 

[Skip]

Reading this article clears up for me why/how the shark teeth on the P-40 aircraft got there. The unit was to be The Flying Tiger Sharks. (allegedly as it was known as in the popular Chinese press).

Over the weekend I just happened to be looking through my bookcase and was leafing through a volume of Wings Of Fame (Vol 9). It has an article on the AVG, and on page 8 under the heading Beginnings at Kyedaw it states:

QUOTE: On 15th November 1941, Charles Bond wrote into his diary of the selection of the most famous aircraft marking in history: 'While discussing the world situation over coffee after dinner, I noticed a magazine section of a British newspaper on the table. I was attracted by the picture of an Australian P-40 on the front page that was exactly like ours, but with one exception - the lower nose section around the oil scoop inlets was brightly painted red, white, and green in the shape of a snarling tiger shark, mouth wide open with teeth exposed. Gee!, I'm going to paint my P-40 that way. I discussed it with the others and they thought it was a good idea. Fortunately, Chennault likes the idea as well.'

The picture showing Tomahawks of the Royal Air Force's No. 112 Squadron was in the September 1941 issue of the Illistrated London News. END QUOTE

Below is a link to some images (and more info, though unrelated to this thread) of those 112 Squadron P-40 nose art

http://raf-112-squadron.org/raf_112_squ ... _1941.html

 

[Anonymous]

That Christmas dinner menu looks good.

 

[2jakes]

Below is a link to some images (and more info, though unrelated to this thread) of those 112 Squadron P-40 nose art

http://raf-112-squadron.org/raf_112_squ ... _1941.html[/quote]

With regards to the above link....I found this information interesting .

" The origin of the shark's mouth dates back to 1941,
as documented in the Champlin Fighter Museum @ Falcon Field, Mesa,Arizona.
An American Volunteer Group pilot, Charlie Bond, was visiting the home of Roy &
Alice Klein, American Baptist missionaries in Toungoo, Burma. Bond noticed their
copy of the Illustrated Weekly of India, dated 2 November 1941, had a picture of
a Curtis P-40B Tomahawk with a shark's mouth decorating the nose. The aircraft
belonged to the RAF No. 112 Squadron. The next day, 16 November 1941, Bond
rode his bicycle into town, bought some paint, and by that afternoon, had marked
his P-40B in the manner subsequently adopted by the AVG as the trademark of
the "Flying Tigers." There were 13,738 P-40s built & used by 28 countries. The
last version was the P-40N. The British called them Tomahawk or Kittyhawk. The
USA named the P-40 "Warhawk."
Sometime in September 1941, the shark mouth paintings first appeared. Jerry
Westenra relates that Fg Off Brunton painted the Shark teeth on his aircraft
in order to distinguish it from the others at a distance. The result was
dramatic since the Tomahawk with it's great gaping air intake beneath the spinner
seemed to have been designed for that very purpose. Westenra then suggested to
the CO that all the aircraft should be painted the same way. Soon every machine
carried the new markings, much to Peter Brunton's disgust."

 

[Skip]

Fits in well, I imagine there's a lot of similar stories and Viewpoints from different pilots and sources. Both theatres were similar in the respect of relaxed view to normal regs.

The AVG pilots referred to their kite as a P40, but the actual plane was sourced directly from Curtis not through the USAAF, and had a different name which now eludes me but was in the article. It was faster and had a better performing engine than Kittyhawks procured by the Brits for 112 Squad. Get back later with the details when home. Just a bit of trivia...

 

[EMBLEMHUNTER]

So the Brits actually had the "tiger shark" mouths before the AVG , I had read that somewhere years ago but forgot about it , always great history to be found out there if you take the time to go "hunting"
Johnny

 

[Skip]

Here's the detail on the Curtis Hawks. Some drawings and specs and a bit from the article about why the Hawk. the article and drawing was published in 1997 so there may have been updates since, but I've never seen any (doesn't mean there isn't though). I haven't got the book at the beginning of this tread so am not sure if you already have the drawing etc, but if anyone wants a hi res image of the drawing just PM me.

 

[DJS48]

That is all very interesting information, I too watched MMC in the 50's and never would have thought "Roy" had such a connection to the Flying Tigers, really neat. I have been in China since 2007 and "The Flying Tigers are well known here and have seen documentaries on the subject, which was a surprise to me intially. Also, Jimmy Dodd was in the John Wayne, "Flying Tiger" movie.
Cheers, Don

 

[2jakes]

That is all very interesting information, I too watched MMC in the 50's and never would have thought "Roy" had such a connection to the Flying Tigers, really neat. I have been in China since 2007 and "The Flying Tigers are well known here and have seen documentaries on the subject, which was a surprise to me intially. Also, Jimmy Dodd was in the John Wayne, "Flying Tiger" movie.
Cheers, Don

"it's a small world after all"
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