Named & Patched L-2B

[917_k]

Hey All,

Having joined the forum back in 2017 I've been something of a silent lurker, so thought it was about time I contributed something. When I first joined I owned no jackets and the interest was really just born out of discovering the whole Japanese 'Americana' thing (I picked up a Real Mccoys catalogue in an independent magazine shop and having collected militaria as a kid, was sufficiently intrigued), 'workwear' and heritage clothing fashion. Anyway, fast forward to now and I'm fully hooked and have started building a small collection......

I wanted to share some photos of a recent Ebay find, partly to share this with the other forum members, but also to garner some opinions on this piece.

Based on the patches, on the face of it the jacket appears to have belonged to Lieutenant General James E. Chambers:

https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Biographies/Display/Article/104922/lieutenant-general-james-e-chambers/

Interestingly enough, there are stitching marks visible from previously removed patches, the outlines of which seem to correspond with squadrons he was previously assigned to before ending up with the 563rd TFS.

The zipper is Riri so has been replaced at some point and the nits look a little to tidy, so may have also been replaced. I'm not so clued up on dating these things, but assumed from the label 1961?? It's got a rescue orange liner and I understand these were present on very early 60s jackets.

Any thoughts or opinions would be greatly appreciated. I guess no one would bother sticking these patches on a jacket for the fun of it, and the dating and everything else lining up, suggest it is genuine (i.e. belonged to the individual in question). I assume pilots would retain the same jacket and simply remove and add new patches as they change squadron?

Rob

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[B-Man2]

Nice looking jacket.
My only question would be that the patches look relatively new with little or no soiled areas.
I realize this guy was a general officer and as such he didn’t get dirty very often however jackets get soiled simply by taking them off and laying them somewhere. The fact that there are additional holes indicates that these are relatively new patches. That’s my only observation. Doesnt mean the jacket isn’t authentic, just makes me suspicious.
The price of these jackets increases considerably if the provenance supports ownership by a general officer. And yes some unscrupulous people will put legitimate military issue patches on a genuine issued military jacket simply to increase its value. Did the seller offer any other documents, photos or artifacts to corroborate that this jacket was owned by General Chambers??

 

[Greg Gale]

The patches do look quite shiny, especially compared to the worn look of the label. Maybe , as you said, they were replaced as he changed units? Anyhow it's a really bad@ss looking jacket!

 

[UBIK]

I am seen this jacket on Ebay, and all I can say is that the 563rs tfs and the arrowhead are 100% fake patches for me ( I have the real one btw). The 563rd have wrong colors also, and the arrowhead color was never used for the 23rd TFW.
The wings should be Senior Wings with a star. And blue nametape and wings are almost never seen. So for me it's just a reassembly with fake and real patches.

 

[Thomas Koehle]

Awesome jacket

 

[Tom Bowers]

very nice jacket, thank you for sharing it with us

 

[UBIK]

Hello because image worth thousand words: so here's the correct and real patches from the 563rd tfs; F-105 era with flat edges.
The 563rs patch on your jacket have wrong colors on the back of the ace and the ace of spades is really to dark: it should be very light cream color like one the Eric's collection page:
The F-105 patch is also wrong, the color is red: I have never seen this strange color on arrowhead anyway. Plus yours in the construction look like all of the fake F-105 arrowhead I have seen so far since 1999. The blue namestrip and wings are a good signs of rebuilt jacket to make some bucks, because those were used rarely on flight jackets: it exist for sure, I have some exemple. But fakers like them because genuine ones are cheap and easy to get. Also the wings should be senior wings, not basic one.
Sorry to be the trouble maker, but I think we all deserve thruth, after all that's the goal of this forum.

 

[917_k]

Thanks very much for the replies everyone, and especially to UBIK for the information. Its too bad it does appear to be a dud, but I guess we all get burned on the first few purchases when getting into a hobby like this (I collected militaria before and certainly bought some absolute rubbish not knowing), and whilst I'm certainly disappointed, I don't feel I paid too much more than what a standard non-patched early L-2B would cost (I paid £100 for this).

Frankly its rather strange to me that someone would bother patching up a jacket like this from a completely obscure and unknown individual, for something that isn't especially rare. Did I bite because of the patches? Yes. Would I have still bought it without? Most probably. I can sort of understand doing it with earlier A2s etc, but surely something like this would take a long time to make the effort really worth while. What's a basic early L-2B worth without any provenance? I would have thought between £50-£100.

We live and learn! I'm tempted to remove the patches, but I guess I can leave it is and laugh it off as an early lesson; people still pay $$$ for modern repros from the likes of BR, RM & Eastman with name tags and squadron patches.

 

[Stony]

I was in the 561st at McConnell when I first got there and this was our squadron patch. I transferred over to the 23rd FMS when the squadron was deployed to Thailand in early 72'.

 

[UBIK]

I was in the 561st at McConnell when I first got there and this was our squadron patch. I transferred over to the 23rd FMS when the squadron was deployed to Thailand in early 72'.

Great Stony! nice patch: it's your patch in 1972 patch? I have this one and a wider version also with no tab on top

 

[UBIK]

Thanks very much for the replies everyone, and especially to UBIK for the information. Its too bad it does appear to be a dud, but I guess we all get burned on the first few purchases when getting into a hobby like this (I collected militaria before and certainly bought some absolute rubbish not knowing), and whilst I'm certainly disappointed, I don't feel I paid too much more than what a standard non-patched early L-2B would cost (I paid £100 for this).

Frankly its rather strange to me that someone would bother patching up a jacket like this from a completely obscure and unknown individual, for something that isn't especially rare. Did I bite because of the patches? Yes. Would I have still bought it without? Most probably. I can sort of understand doing it with earlier A2s etc, but surely something like this would take a long time to make the effort really worth while. What's a basic early L-2B worth without any provenance? I would have thought between £50-£100.

We live and learn! I'm tempted to remove the patches, but I guess I can leave it is and laugh it off as an early lesson; people still pay $$$ for modern repros from the likes of BR, RM & Eastman with name tags and squadron patches.

Glad my infos can help! Yes several sellers do this on Ebay. Some people really try hard to replicate those jackets. Some restore them also and put real patches on it. That's why it's hard to detect real one from fake. I avoid Blue nametape/wings jacket, 90% are fake. You have to search for reference pictures of real one worn by pilots and pictures of L-2b that have been ID as real. But if the jacket is real, you will see most of the time pices rising pretty fast. I have a strong data of 1950's/1960's/1970's pictures ofpilot that wear those. Plus I am specialized in patches, that I cna detect fake from real one also. So if you really want to go in it: iy's required years of knowledge on patches, how pilot wear it, how the unit where the pilot worned those patches...etc... Just on exemple: two famous F-105 pilot/wso. And the 23rd TFS patch that is wearing on his L-2B: same period of the jacket, shadowing patch with fake leather: middle 1960's