My last A-2 (hopefully) - Good Wear

[mulceber]

Anyone know any nice goatskin A-2 contracts?
I've been really loving the grain on some of the GW goatskins we've been seeing.
I know the Dubow 27798 was one; but I already have Platon's.
The RW 18091 is another, but I can't really think of any others.
Advice from the A-2 guys would be great! Thanks!

RW 18091 would be my vote. But also Cable 10008-P, Doniger, Spiewak, Bronco 1st contract and Perry 1st contract. I had to open up Eastman's guide for many of those, and it's possible I missed one or two.

 

[MaydayWei]

RW 18091 would be my vote. But also Cable 10008-P, Doniger, Spiewak, Bronco 1st contract and Perry 1st contract. I had to open up Eastman's guide for many of those, and it's possible I missed one or two.

Thank you, I'll have a look! >

 

[Kermit3D]

I got a response from John !

Well... that was fast.
He told me that my jacket would be ready to be built in about 1 month !

I also told him that I would like to order an A-2 and to orient me on contracts that would fit my body type (I am tall and thin).
He told me that he loved 4 contracts that were well suited for me, here are his words :

"For the A-2, I've got a lot of choices, but I have four favorite patterns, that just look so good when you put it on. They are...
- Rough Wear (I have taken patterns from the 16159, 18091, 1401-P, and 27752)....they're all so cool! The 27752 is my favorite
- Dubow 20960: this one looks wonderful, and I like this collar a lot more than the 27798
- Werber Sportswear: any of them...all four that I make look great worn
- Aero 16160: this contract is a bit oddly not like the earlier nor later versions, and I just love how it looks."

So I will think about it...
But for now the priority is the B-6.
So I'm at the point where I'm going to give John the details of what I'd like to do to narrow down my choice.


B-6 CONTRACT CHOICE :

John is proposing two contracts for the B-6 : the Arnoff and the Aero Leather (Acme). First and foremost I want a historically accurate jacket. The Aero leather is nice because it is very representative of the B-6, it is by far the most common if I'm not mistaken. But it bothers me a little that it says "Acme" on the label. Also, John mentioned in an email that the Arnoff contract was his favorite, and I feel like trusting him. So my choice will be the Arnoff contract.


SHEEPSKIN CHOICE :

John showed me a lot of sheepskins. It's a tough choice.
I'll try to sum up my thoughts as best I can :

What I like / would like :

• an historically credible sheepskin for an Arnoff contract
• a sheepskin with a lot of character (grain, wrinkles, ...), something quite heterogeneous.
• a sheepskin with slight nuances of color (slight nuances of tone)
• a nice ivory colored fur (slightly dark ? is it credible for a B-6 jacket ?).

What I don't like :

• sheepskin is too shiny
• very smooth / homogeneous sheepskin
• furs that are too white

Here are some sheepskins that John showed me (click on the pictures to enlarge them) :

1 : An American tannery, their fur color is a bit yellow, which is true to some of the originals, but a bit too flashy. This is not wrong, however.

2 : A huge tannery in China that offers a lot of colors and superb skins.

3 : The same Chinese tannery

4 : Another American tannery. John is going to do some testing to bring out the grain on this sheepskin. According to him it is an incredibly comfortable hide.

5 :

6 : Still an American tannery. A magnificent skin according to John and extremely comfortable

John mentioned that he dyes the sheepskin himself and can do just about any shade of color or sheen.

Well, you can see that the choice is difficult.

One last option: the artificial aging that John suggests. It's an art that he masters perfectly (much better than the other jacket makers according to me). It's a choice that I didn't totally put aside... here are some pictures :

I'd be happy to hear your thoughts and opinions about this

 

[YoungMedic]

so much candy

 

[mulceber]

Super cool, Kermit. I'm glad the jacket's so close to being made! Should arrive just in time for winter! In terms of which shearling, I'm a fan of 2/3 and 6. John has mentioned to me that the Chinese stuff is a little bit stiffer than the American stuff (which is very pliable), but I'm not sure what that would mean in terms of comfort. I must say, I really like the way #6 drapes. As for the artificial aging, I'd opt against it (although it turned out very well in the photos), but I pretty much always avoid that kind of thing.

What's your current thinking on A-2 contracts?

 

[Pa12]

I got a response from John !

Well... that was fast.
He told me that my jacket would be ready to be built in about 1 month !

I also told him that I would like to order an A-2 and to orient me on contracts that would fit my body type (I am tall and thin).
He told me that he loved 4 contracts that were well suited for me, here are his words :

"For the A-2, I've got a lot of choices, but I have four favorite patterns, that just look so good when you put it on. They are...
- Rough Wear (I have taken patterns from the 16159, 18091, 1401-P, and 27752)....they're all so cool! The 27752 is my favorite
- Dubow 20960: this one looks wonderful, and I like this collar a lot more than the 27798
- Werber Sportswear: any of them...all four that I make look great worn
- Aero 16160: this contract is a bit oddly not like the earlier nor later versions, and I just love how it looks."

So I will think about it...
But for now the priority is the B-6.
So I'm at the point where I'm going to give John the details of what I'd like to do to narrow down my choice.


B-6 CONTRACT CHOICE :

John is proposing two contracts for the B-6 : the Arnoff and the Aero Leather (Acme). First and foremost I want a historically accurate jacket. The Aero leather is nice because it is very representative of the B-6, it is by far the most common if I'm not mistaken. But it bothers me a little that it says "Acme" on the label. Also, John mentioned in an email that the Arnoff contract was his favorite, and I feel like trusting him. So my choice will be the Arnoff contract.


SHEEPSKIN CHOICE :

John showed me a lot of sheepskins. It's a tough choice.
I'll try to sum up my thoughts as best I can :

What I like / would like :

• an historically credible sheepskin for an Arnoff contract
• a sheepskin with a lot of character (grain, wrinkles, ...), something quite heterogeneous.
• a sheepskin with slight nuances of color (slight nuances of tone)
• a nice ivory colored fur (slightly dark ? is it credible for a B-6 jacket ?).

What I don't like :

• sheepskin is too shiny
• very smooth / homogeneous sheepskin
• furs that are too white

Here are some sheepskins that John showed me (click on the pictures to enlarge them) :

1 : An American tannery, their fur color is a bit yellow, which is true to some of the originals, but a bit too flashy. This is not wrong, however.

2 : A huge tannery in China that offers a lot of colors and superb skins.

3 : The same Chinese tannery

4 : Another American tannery. John is going to do some testing to bring out the grain on this sheepskin. According to him it is an incredibly comfortable hide.

5 :

6 : Still an American tannery. A magnificent skin according to John and extremely comfortable

John mentioned that he dyes the sheepskin himself and can do just about any shade of color or sheen.

Well, you can see that the choice is difficult.

One last option: the artificial aging that John suggests. It's an art that he masters perfectly (much better than the other jacket makers according to me). It's a choice that I didn't totally put aside... here are some pictures :

View attachment 84364 View attachment 84365

I'd be happy to hear your thoughts and opinions about this

Just in time for cold weather and Christmas. Too many choices . But you won’t be disappointed what ever you pick. I’ve had my elc b-6 for 8 years now. All the leather parts, buckles , welting, show wear and age. The sheepskin however shows zero age. Don’t know if johns hides are the same.

 

[entertainment]

I have a B-6, B-3, M-444A, and M-445B from John. The B-6 is about ten years old and has a stiffer sheepskin with a surface texture that is almost crispy like nori. The other jackets are from the last couple years and have much more supple hides. I tend to wear the two Navy jackets the most because the sheepskin is not too thick and I can move freely. (And the B-6 would have hides about the thickness of the Navy jackets.) My personal preference is definitely for supple!

 

[Smithy]

I just sent an email to John Chapman about the B-6 I ordered from him 17 months ago. I haven't heard from him and I just wanted to know what the status was.

I took the opportunity to tell him about my plan to order an A-2 and I asked him to guide me on the choice of the contract according to my measurements.
For the moment I have a very slight preference for a Rough Wear 1401... but I'm waiting to see what he proposes.

Kermit, I haven't heard from John regarding my order since I placed it back in June last year. He sent a quick hi and how's it going as he recognised me from my deposit but nothing since. Here's the rub...

That's not a bad thing. He's pretty much a one-man band so he doesn't have a lot of time outside of making jackets and communicating via email with those whose jackets he's working on. Remember he also has a life outside of working too.

Just put the deposit down for that A2 for any contract and you can change this once your turn comes up in the queue depending on what John thinks.

Ordering a jacket from John needs to be approached in the same way as making good wine - it takes time.

 

[Pa12]

My b-6 got a nasty little tear in the sleeve which had to be repaired last year. I was told it had dried out and should be treated once a year. Unfortunately the treatment makes it shiny again.

 

[Sideslip]

As for the artificial aging, I'd opt against it (although it turned out very well in the photos), but I pretty much always avoid that kind of thing.

Out of interest, why are you not in favour of the ageing? The question is not intended to be polemic, I am actually curious as I have been wondering about it for my order when it comes up (I think I am 3-4 months behind Kermit in the queue).

 

[mulceber]

I personally just like any aging that jacket goes through to be through my own wear. Although I have asked John to combat clone the stitching, so that it has that "skilled worker working quickly" quality that some of the better originals have.

 

[Sideslip]

I personally just like any aging that jacket goes through to be through my own wear. Although I have asked John to combat clone the stitching, so that it has that "skilled worker working quickly" quality that some of the better originals have.

Thanks, appreciated; makes sense. Ultimately, not sure that one can go wrong with one of John's works based on the one I have and the photos I have seen of others. A pity I missed the GW RW test jacket which came up 10 days ago and Blackrats combat clone in my size. Patience required and $ saved though!

 

[Pa12]

I personally just like any aging that jacket goes through to be through my own wear. Although I have asked John to combat clone the stitching, so that it has that "skilled worker working quickly" quality that some of the better originals have.

I was curious as to whether you have seen any aging on your sheepskin jackets? I see photos of originals during the war with huge aging. I’ve had mine 8 years and have never babied it , yet the sheepskin looks like the day it was new.

 

[Smithy]

I was curious as to whether you have seen any aging on your sheepskin jackets? I see photos of originals during the war with huge aging. I’ve had mine 8 years and have never babied it , yet the sheepskin looks like the day it was new.

The reason is that shearlings were usually used by bomber crews and because of that they experienced enormous amounts of scraping against surfaces whilst being used during a mission.

As you also probably know, WWII bomber aircraft have lots and lots of metal surfaces and edges to rub against on the interior.

Not really surprising that an airman's shearling jacket would experience an enormous amount of scraping and scuffing over his 25 (or more) tour, far more than your jacket will endure getting in and out of an automobile with padded seats

 

[Pa12]

I’ve worn mine flying, working on airplanes etc, even working on the tractor. When I got the small tear last year I was shocked how thin and delicate the skin was. So much so that driving and flying is all I’ll do with it from now on, especially with the replacement cost. They must have used thicker hides then. I’m positive mine would be torn to shreds long before there’s any colour loss.

 

[Smithy]

I’ve worn mine flying, working on airplanes etc, even working on the tractor. When I got the small tear last year I was shocked how thin and delicate the skin was. So much so that driving and flying is all I’ll do with it from now on, especially with the replacement cost. They must have used thicker hides then. I’m positive mine would be torn to shreds long before there’s any colour loss.

I'm sure you think that you've worn yours hard but I'd argue that it hasn't come anywhere near close to how hard an original, operationally used jacket was.

Flying peace-time in a civilian aircraft is very different from flying under combat conditions in a WWII era bomber.

Back then they were being scraped constantly from moving within the airframe and also whilst sitting in station from turbulence, flak, etc. They were in near constant friction with the airplane around them.

You see lots of originals with sewing repairs to rips and damage.

Not trying to be nasty or anything but driving a tractor and flying a civilian aircraft in your shearling jacket is slightly different conditions to that of flying a combat tour on a bomber during WWII.

 

[Pa12]

I'm sure you think that you've worn yours hard but I'd argue that it hasn't come anywhere near close to how hard an original, operationally used jacket was.

Flying peace-time in a civilian aircraft is very different from flying under combat conditions in a WWII era bomber.

Back then they were being scraped constantly from moving within the airframe and also whilst sitting in station from turbulence, flak, etc. They were in near constant friction with the airplane around them.

You see lots of originals with sewing repairs to rips and damage.

Not trying to be nasty or anything but driving a tractor and flying a civilian aircraft in your shearling jacket is slightly different conditions to that of flying a combat tour on a bomber during WWII.

For sure. And that was “working” on the tractor as in fixing it as well as aircraft. My point is that this elc b-6 would never tolerate the conditions of the originals as it won’t even tolerate what I put it through. So I surmise that it may look the same and feel the same, but it ain’t the same.

 

[Smithy]

For sure. And that was “working” on the tractor as in fixing it as well as aircraft. My point is that this elc b-6 would never tolerate the conditions of the originals as it won’t even tolerate what I put it through. So I surmise that it may look the same and feel the same, but it ain’t the same.

Respectfully, I'm not sure you're right. People are often a lot more careful, even subconsciously, with these repros that they have bought than what a crew member back in the day would've done. That ELC B-6 of yours would probably do just fine under original conditions. Remember also that the B-6 was more likely to be used on something like a P-38 with subpar heating than a heavy bomber where a B-3 would have been used. And for that fact a B-3 is a heftier beast with thicker shearling. A B-6 wouldn't usually be put under the same kind of punishment as a B-3 because they were usually used in a different flying environment than that of a B-3.

 

[ausreenactor]

B

I got a response from John !

Well... that was fast.
He told me that my jacket would be ready to be built in about 1 month !

I also told him that I would like to order an A-2 and to orient me on contracts that would fit my body type (I am tall and thin).
He told me that he loved 4 contracts that were well suited for me, here are his words :

"For the A-2, I've got a lot of choices, but I have four favorite patterns, that just look so good when you put it on. They are...
- Rough Wear (I have taken patterns from the 16159, 18091, 1401-P, and 27752)....they're all so cool! The 27752 is my favorite
- Dubow 20960: this one looks wonderful, and I like this collar a lot more than the 27798
- Werber Sportswear: any of them...all four that I make look great worn
- Aero 16160: this contract is a bit oddly not like the earlier nor later versions, and I just love how it looks."

So I will think about it...
But for now the priority is the B-6.
So I'm at the point where I'm going to give John the details of what I'd like to do to narrow down my choice.


B-6 CONTRACT CHOICE :

John is proposing two contracts for the B-6 : the Arnoff and the Aero Leather (Acme). First and foremost I want a historically accurate jacket. The Aero leather is nice because it is very representative of the B-6, it is by far the most common if I'm not mistaken. But it bothers me a little that it says "Acme" on the label. Also, John mentioned in an email that the Arnoff contract was his favorite, and I feel like trusting him. So my choice will be the Arnoff contract.


SHEEPSKIN CHOICE :

John showed me a lot of sheepskins. It's a tough choice.
I'll try to sum up my thoughts as best I can :

What I like / would like :

• an historically credible sheepskin for an Arnoff contract
• a sheepskin with a lot of character (grain, wrinkles, ...), something quite heterogeneous.
• a sheepskin with slight nuances of color (slight nuances of tone)
• a nice ivory colored fur (slightly dark ? is it credible for a B-6 jacket ?).

What I don't like :

• sheepskin is too shiny
• very smooth / homogeneous sheepskin
• furs that are too white

Here are some sheepskins that John showed me (click on the pictures to enlarge them) :

1 : An American tannery, their fur color is a bit yellow, which is true to some of the originals, but a bit too flashy. This is not wrong, however.

2 : A huge tannery in China that offers a lot of colors and superb skins.

3 : The same Chinese tannery

4 : Another American tannery. John is going to do some testing to bring out the grain on this sheepskin. According to him it is an incredibly comfortable hide.

5 :

6 : Still an American tannery. A magnificent skin according to John and extremely comfortable

John mentioned that he dyes the sheepskin himself and can do just about any shade of color or sheen.

Well, you can see that the choice is difficult.

One last option: the artificial aging that John suggests. It's an art that he masters perfectly (much better than the other jacket makers according to me). It's a choice that I didn't totally put aside... here are some pictures :

View attachment 84364 View attachment 84365

I'd be happy to hear your thoughts and opinions about this

Boycott the Chinese hides!

 

[Pa12]

I’d love to see the hide

Respectfully, I'm not sure you're right. People are often a lot more careful, even subconsciously, with these repros that they have bought than what a crew member back in the day would've done. That ELC B-6 of yours would probably do just fine under original conditions. Remember also that the B-6 was more likely to be used on something like a P-38 with subpar heating than a heavy bomber where a B-3 would have been used. And for that fact a B-3 is a heftier beast with thicker shearling. A B-6 wouldn't usually be put under the same kind of punishment as a B-3 because they were usually used in a different flying environment than that of a B-3.

id love to see an original hide. Mine is closer to a membrane then a hide.