Modern German Flieger Jacke

[Wholenineyards]

@Wholenineyards thats an awesome jacket!

Do you know if the colour has been changed some time during those early issues?
I do know photos with the jacket being almost as dark bluish-grey as the later Marineflieger version of this jacket, not the brighter grey of the later Luftwaffe and Heeresflieger issued jackets. I think this is also evident in the group-photo with most of the pilots having the dark one and the couple few on the left do have the (later?) brighter issue.

Hi, I just know there were a couple of contractors over the years, and I myself have been issued both kinds, lighter and darker. One didn't have much choice in the matter, they just looked for your size, if it fit remotely you were issued. I have seen some ill fitting leather jackets in my time. The same jackets have been issued to all services, there have been no discriminations. When I joined in 1989 Air Force wore grey flight suits with those jackets, Army wore green and Navy wore blue. Same grey jackets. Some years ago the Armed Services started getting green ill-fitting Nomex-Gortex jackets and the grey leather is generally not part of flight equipment anymore. The Bundeswehr sold almost all of the jackets off to military retail shops but kept some to issue them to maintenance personnel. The Airbus Company must have bought thousands because they issued them to their employees for daily wear. We all had to turn in our flight jackets to the aviation gear supply shop but after some Luftwaffe pilots ran riots the Bundeswehr offered everybody who was legally issued a grey flight jacket to buy it off for 50 Euro. I will attach mine (with X-country name tag) and the former Chief Technology Officer Grazia Vittadini, who is incidently the partner of a good friend of mine, a test pilot and former Breguet Atlantique driver. Also found an old darker German flight jacket that my dad bought when I was younger. The Luftwaffe used little wings patches sown above the German nationality markings. Army had non and Navy could be distinguished by the rank insignia. On my old jacket it is duplicated because later in the 80s(?) the Luftwaffe incorporated the little wings onto the rank insignia. I just laud the patches on as examples.

 

[Bremspropeller]

@Wholenineyards I have been looking for pictures of the "Marineblau" jacket, but it seems like they'revery hard to come by. I might ask somebody who's close to MFG 3 whether those "Marine" jackets were ever actually issued - I seem to remember seeing them right around the time the Tornados were phased out.

FWIW this is the jacket I have (through this site, though the price was much more modest back then):

Modeka BW-Pilotenjacke, mit Schubtasche - marine

Funktionale Fliegerjacke in marinablau mit hohem Wiedererkennungswert und Authentizität. Hergestellt vom gleichen Hersteller, der seit vielen…

www.original-flightjackets.com

Edit: This is from MFG 2's facebook page:

Note the cuffs are blue, not grey, so this is not a lighting issue.

 

[Wholenineyards]

@Wholenineyards I have been looking for pictures of the "Marineblau" jacket, but it seems like they'revery hard to come by. I might ask somebody who's close to MFG 3 whether those "Marine" jackets were ever actually issued - I seem to remember seeing them right around the time the Tornados were phased out.

FWIW this is the jacket I have (through this site, though the price was much more modest back then):

Modeka BW-Pilotenjacke, mit Schubtasche - marine

Funktionale Fliegerjacke in marinablau mit hohem Wiedererkennungswert und Authentizität. Hergestellt vom gleichen Hersteller, der seit vielen…

www.original-flightjackets.com

Edit: This is from MFG 2's facebook page:

View attachment 86547

Note the cuffs are blue, not grey, so this is not a lighting issue.

I am sorry, @Bremspropeller, this is a grey jacket you've found there, too. Even Marineflieger flew in grey leather. Really, to my absolutely neutral knowledge (meaning I wouldn't wage war on it) there has never been another jacket issued to the German Armed Forces aviation cadre other than a grey (various shades) chrome tanned Goatskin jacket with no side entry pockets and a Nomenclature tag in white with black letters. All the three services got the same basic jacket.

 

[Wholenineyards]

I am sorry, @Bremspropeller, this is a grey jacket you've found there, too. Even Marineflieger flew in grey leather. Really, to my absolutely neutral knowledge (meaning I wouldn't wage war on it) there has never been another jacket issued to the German Armed Forces aviation cadre other than a grey (various shades) chrome tanned Goatskin jacket with no side entry pockets and a Nomenclature tag in white with black letters. All the three services got the same basic jacket. There have been no blue, black or green Fliegerjacken in the Bundeswehr (comprising Heeresflieger, Luftwaffe oder Marineflieger). A white jacket (sometimes offered on the market) may or may not ever have been given out to the military medical teams flying on SAR Hueys. I have never seen one yet I don't know. But I suggest that those white Fliegerjacke jackets have been used by civilian medical staff flying on military SAR or commercial EMS aircraft (ADAC or DRF). Rarest of jackets are the early grey Bundeswehr Fliegerjacken with angled pockets and grey satin lining. And the now defunct green Fliegerjacken formerly issued to the Federal Police (Bundesgrenzschutz).

BGS used their own procurement system and also other manufacturers than Bundeswehr, they produced only in very, very small badges. They were loved by the helicopter crews and heavily used. If you were to find one in good condition and wearable consider yourself very lucky. Opposite to the Bundeswehr Fliegerjacken these 'mossy' (mosgrün) green coloured jackets had a removable teddy lining to go with. Bundeswehr Fliegerjacken later only had the signal orange satin lining. The Dutch military used to issue similar grey ones, also the Belgians.

 

[Wholenineyards]

@Wholenineyards I have been looking for pictures of the "Marineblau" jacket, but it seems like they'revery hard to come by. I might ask somebody who's close to MFG 3 whether those "Marine" jackets were ever actually issued - I seem to remember seeing them right around the time the Tornados were phased out.

FWIW this is the jacket I have (through this site, though the price was much more modest back then):

Modeka BW-Pilotenjacke, mit Schubtasche - marine

Funktionale Fliegerjacke in marinablau mit hohem Wiedererkennungswert und Authentizität. Hergestellt vom gleichen Hersteller, der seit vielen…

www.original-flightjackets.com

Edit: This is from MFG 2's facebook page:

View attachment 86547

Note the cuffs are blue, not grey, so this is not a lighting issue.

By the way, for anybody looking for legit Fliegerjacken, stay away from handwarmer pockets or labels like this:

This Luftwaffe Oberfeldwebel was not issued this jacket but has bought it as a commercial copy and has affixed rank and wing insignia. Apparently being part of Fighter Bomber Wing 34 (Jagdbombergeschwader 34 "Allgäu") he had no way of being part of aircrew as only officers flew there. But the use of civilian models was generally tolerated to boost morale. Everybody wanted to wear one and issue was highly restricted. And I am NOT saying that these were not high quality jackets. The only thing they were not was... issued as part of flight clothing. Watch for tags like the following:

 

[Cyril]

Here are some pictures of a border patrol (Bundesgrenzschutz) flight jacket, supposed to be original.
on sale here (i am not related to that shop )

Original German BGS „Bundesgrenzschutz“Leather Helicopter Pilot Jacket – Haas Ausruestungen

 

[Bremspropeller]

I am sorry, @Bremspropeller, this is a grey jacket you've found there, too.

You might be right. It does certainly look exactly like on this picture and holding the civvie and issued "grey" model next to it, the colour-difference isn't all that much pronounced as it might seem. It's pretty close to the dark-hued "grey" jackets with just a more bluish hue. What speaks against my hypothesis is the fact that it doesn't have ID-orange lining.
I'm still quite sure I have seen the jacket in use.

Fun fact: Somebody who's currently a tech rep at a Eurofighter wing told me, the civvie (with handwarmers) version is now worn by pilots, too, as it's pretty much a "free for all" at the moment.

Apparently being part of Fighter Bomber Wing 34 (Jagdbombergeschwader 34 "Allgäu") he had no way of being part of aircrew as only officers flew there.

Luftwaffe had NCO pilots way into the 70s, including pilots on the 104.
JaboG 34 didn't fly Phantoms as advertised there, though.

 

[Wholenineyards]

You might be right. It does certainly look exactly like on this picture and holding the civvie and issued "grey" model next to it, the colour-difference isn't all that much pronounced as it might seem. It's pretty close to the dark-hued "grey" jackets with just a more bluish hue. What speaks against my hypothesis is the fact that it doesn't have ID-orange lining.
I'm still quite sure I have seen the jacket in use.

Fun fact: Somebody who's currently a tech rep at a Eurofighter wing told me, the civvie (with handwarmers) version is now worn by pilots, too, as it's pretty much a "free for all" at the moment.


Luftwaffe had NCO pilots way into the 70s, including pilots on the 104.
JaboG 34 didn't fly Phantoms as advertised there, though.

You are right concerning the jet flying NCOs, but the said jacket (Oberfeldwebel Roll) should not be this old, and an active pilot would probably have had no need for a commercial jacket. Additionally, above his name strip are two pin holes, and from the outline it seems he had affixed an occupational metal shield denoting his military specialty. Probably ATC or Maintenance.

An active pilot would have his wings there, but as a fabric patch sewn on, most likely never pinned on as this poses a FO hazard and is forbidden on clothing worn in the cockpit and frowned upon.

I found the following book an extremely informative source on Bundeswehr Flight jackets and gear as well as history of the early jet wings of the Luftwaffe and Marineflieger, it is still available out there.

Anyhow, great discussion, thanks a lot.

 

[Flightengineer]

Thanks, I learned a lot of interesting. I once had an original jacket from German series about ambulance heli pilots, and another one belonged to LTG62 pilot, both I sold few years ago.

 

[Bremspropeller]

I found the following book an extremely informative source on Bundeswehr Flight jackets and gear as well as history of the early jet wings of the Luftwaffe and Marineflieger, it is still available out there.

It is a great book. Make sure you check out the books on the Gina and the new F-104 book "Deutsche Starfighter - Die Geschichte in Farbe" by the same author.

 

[Chandler]

...from German series about ambulance heli pilots...

A TV series? Sounds interesting, do you have the title?

 

[Hazayad]

A TV series? Sounds interesting, do you have the title?

https://www.fernsehserien.de/die-rettungsflieger I think he is referring to this.
see also here: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Rettungsflieger

 

[Wholenineyards]

It is a great book. Make sure you check out the books on the Gina and the new F-104 book "Deutsche Starfighter - Die Geschichte in Farbe" by the same author.

Already on the bookshelf, thanks! If you read in German you might want to get the books of 29 Sechs Verlag https://neunundzwanzigsechs.de
Amazing aviation books.

 

[Cyril]

This book below does not contain any photos, but nice storys (kind of ironic memoires) on the early days of the Luftwaffe written by a german jet pilot who entered the west-german air force shortly after it was built up. I was lucky to meet him when i was a teenager and he took me on a trip to air base Noervenich (Taktisches Luftwaffengeschwader 31 "Boelcke"/ using Tornados at the time) to see old friends. He finished his career on the 104 from which he ejected five(!) times. Unfortunately the book is no longer printed and is only available in german (i think). One can find it secondhand.
The authors name is an alias, if i remember it well his name was Schwarzenberger...

 

[Wholenineyards]

https://www.fernsehserien.de/die-rettungsflieger I think he is referring to this.
see also here: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Rettungsflieger

Those are some of

the actors, however, they represent, left to right, Flight Engineer (Hauptfeldwebel/ OR-7), Luftwaffe, Medical Officer (Stabsarzt/ OF-2), Luftwaffe, Pilot (Oberleutnant/ OF-1), Luftwaffe, Flight Nurse/ Paramedic (Oberbootsmann/ OR-6), Marine. The patch is the famous SAR Huey patch seen on many flight suits and jackets.

 

[Wholenineyards]

The following link takes you to rth.info, a website dedicated to the German air rescue/ Aero EMS if interested. I picked a link from 2006 when the SAR/ EMS task was handed over from the Luftwaffe (callsign SAR 71-all those Hueys were loved by the citizens of Hamburg and called Anneliese) to the Bundesgrenzschutz/ Bundespolizei flying orange Bell 212 (in the Service of the Federal Office for Catastrophy Prevention). To be seen nicely are the orange flight suits only worn for rescue duty, grey flight jackets with various adornments and one example of the standard grey flight suit used by all Luftwaffe aircrew at the time. Usage of patches is traditionally rather liberal... opposite BGS aircrew can be seen in their mossy green flight suits and leather jackets. Their use of patches was highly restricted and more frowned upon than was in the Armed Forces.

SAR 71 (Christoph 29) - Der Rettungshubschrauber in Hamburg

SAR 71 ist der Rufname des bekannten Hamburger Rettungshubschraubers, den die Bundeswehr für den zivilen Rettungsdienst in Hamburg bereitstellt.

www.rth.info

By the way, the left hand crew member in the first picture wears a precursor of the coming Nomex/ Goretex fabric flight jackets, now issued in green. At the time it was a trial which hasn't seen widespread use.

 

[Flightengineer]

Those are some of View attachment 86600the actors, however, they represent, left to right, Flight Engineer (Hauptfeldwebel/ OR-7), Luftwaffe, Medical Officer (Stabsarzt/ OF-2), Luftwaffe, Pilot (Oberleutnant/ OF-1), Luftwaffe, Flight Nurse/ Paramedic (Oberbootsmann/ OR-6), Marine. The patch is the famous SAR Huey patch seen on many flight suits and jackets.

Yes, this one.

Here are some old photos from my archive when I tried on this jacket and closer name patch and label. Unfortunately, apart from it, only insignia and flags on the sleeves remained on the jacket, the rest of the patches were lost (traces only).












The guy I bought it from said it was one of the jackets that was used in some German TVseries about copter pilots. It’s hard to say how true this is, but the jacket was real luftwaffe contract and the year of issue is suitable for the time of this film. I was curious but I don't know German so I searched for the name from the jacket's name tag on Google and that's how I found out about this movie ( which I certainly didn't see). I found some photos in the net and remember in the photo that I found, the hero with this name has a different rank and the name tag is located bit lower, but the devil knows these filmmakers how many jackets they used, I didn't watch this TV series. Maybe someone attached this patch later, I don't know for sure and haven't done any research.

I remember that I sold it cause the sleeves were too long for me (this can be seen on the pic BTW).

In any case, this was a very good jacket.

I really liked the quality, good zippers, orange lining, padded collar and also a slit in the armpits for ventilation.
As a pilot, I can say that I'd be comfortable wearing it in the cockpit.

 

[Wholenineyards]

Yes, this one.

Here are some old photos from my archive when I tried on this jacket and closer name patch and label. Unfortunately, apart from it, only insignia and flags on the sleeves remained on the jacket, the rest of the patches were lost (traces only).












The guy I bought it from said it was one of the jackets that was used in some German TVseries about copter pilots. It’s hard to say how true this is, but the jacket was real luftwaffe contract and the year of issue is suitable for the time of this film. I was curious but I don't know German so I searched for the name from the jacket's name tag on Google and that's how I found out about this movie ( which I certainly didn't see). I found some photos in the net and remember in the photo that I found, the hero with this name has a different rank and the name tag is located bit lower, but the devil knows these filmmakers how many jackets they used, I didn't watch this TV series. Maybe someone attached this patch later, I don't know for sure and haven't done any research.

I remember that I sold it cause the sleeves were too long for me (this can be seen on the pic BTW).

In any case, this was a very good jacket.

I really liked the quality, good zippers, orange lining, padded collar and also a slit in the armpits for ventilation.
As a pilot, I can say that I'd be comfortable wearing it in the cockpit.

Interesting buy. Looking at the rank insignia it is that of a Feldwebel (junior NCO) but if I see correctly there was a small silver wiring cord affixed to it which would make this a rank to be Fähnrich (literally Ensign, not to be confused with the USN officer grade). Fähnrich is a midweight cadet rank which would take one from Fahnenjunker through Fähnrich and Oberfähnrich to Leutnant in the new Federal Luftwaffe. Most Luftwaffe helicopter pilots used to be NCOs becoming very senior NCOs like Oberstabsfeldwebel or going from Feldwebel to officer cadet by fixing the cord, in the end becoming something like a warrant officer (specialized officers in their field) but holding the same ranks Leutnant, Oberleutnant to Hauptmann. And you are right, they were and still are comfortable and very well made with a really cool viscose satin lining. I most certainly won't sell mine and I've had offers... still fits, though barely))

 

[ES335]

I am afraid no Bundeswehr flight jacket has been issued with hand warmer pockets, those are commercial reproductions. The grey German flight jackets enjoyed the same popularity there as the G-1 and A-2 jackets in the US. We all wanted one growing up in the 80s.

I want one of the angular pocket examples as I grow up in my '60s! What a beautiful jacket! Toll!

 

[JonnyCrow]

BGS used their own procurement system and also other manufacturers than Bundeswehr, they produced only in very, very small badges. They were loved by the helicopter crews and heavily used. If you were to find one in good condition and wearable consider yourself very lucky. Opposite to the Bundeswehr Fliegerjacken these 'mossy' (mosgrün) green coloured jackets had a removable teddy lining to go with. Bundeswehr Fliegerjacken later only had the signal orange satin lining. The Dutch military used to issue similar grey ones, also the Belgians.

What did the GDR wear?