M422, M422a and AN-J-3 contract value ,award /completion dates

Discussion in 'General Flight Jacket Discussion' started by Carl, Jul 8, 2018.

  1. Ken at Aero Leather

    Ken at Aero Leather Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,126
    Now we are getting somewhere.
    Taking the Arnoff and Monarch orders out of the equasion leaves the spending listed above at $187000, for arguments sake lets assume there were two other contacts totalling $63000, we know there were two different styles/spec so that's reasonable.
    Judging by A-2 prices at the time I'd guess $10 per jacket, that makes 25000 jackets, still a lot more than I expected.
    25000 is the same number as the Spiewak A-2 contract.
    Have I seen as many Spiewak A-2s as I've seen AN-J-3s? No, and nowhere near but, to be fair, I haven't been looking.
    Someone like Andrew might know how often/regularily one of these shows up.
    I'm assuming not all that often, if so it's reasonable to assume that from a starting number of 25000 in 1943, it's hardly suprising there are so few AN-J-3s still around 75 years later

    EDITED THE NEXT DAY These figures should be ignored now that the $187K contract has been idenified as an AN-J-3A
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
  2. Roughwear

    Roughwear Well-Known Member

    Just to make it clear the Monarch and Arnoff contracts were not for AN-J-3 jackets but AN-J-3A jackets. Here is a label from the Monarch contract which clearly shows it was an AN-J-3A.

    upload_2018-7-9_15-8-24.png
     
  3. Carl

    Carl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    949
    Ill amend that then ! I just copied the contract number jacket type from the previous thread . Possibly i got it wrong !! Only human :rolleyes:
     
  4. Ken at Aero Leather

    Ken at Aero Leather Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,126
    Carl

    I think you've edited the wrong ones
     
  5. Carl

    Carl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    949
    Have i ?? :mad::mad:
     
  6. Ken at Aero Leather

    Ken at Aero Leather Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,126
    You've not added the "A" to the Arnoff nor the Monarch
    You have, however added an "A" to the $187K un-named contract but no mentiom was made of that contract being for an AN-J-3A
    The general consensus was that the "A" should only have been added to both the Arnoff and the Monarch
     
  7. Roughwear

    Roughwear Well-Known Member

    ARNOFF AN-J-3A N288xsa 24248 awarded 6/44 completed 11/44 contract value $62k

    BLOCK HL M422a NXS 5134 5/42 8/42 $820k

    CHURCH EDMUND M422A NXS5133 5/42 11/42 ( estimated) $356k


    FRIED OSTERMAN M422A NOS1406 3/42 1/43 (estimated) $812k

    FRIED OSTERMAN M422a NOS1405 3/42 7/44 $1729K


    GORDON FERGUSON M422a NOS 88860 6/41 1/42 $107K

    GORDON FERGUSON M422a NOS 416 3/42 5/42 ( ?) $1270K



    MONARCH M422 NOS 79633 12/40 2/41 $54K


    MONARCH AN-J-3A N288S 20570 2/44 8/44 $228K

    MONARCH AN-J-3A 288XSA 28665 1/45 5/45 $187K


    WILLIS GEIGER M422a NOS 290 3/42 10/43 $3140K

    WILLIS GEIGER AN6552 N288S 28628 1/45 5/45 $188K

    WILLIS GEIGER AN6552 N288S 32357 5/45 10/45 $355K
     
  8. Ken at Aero Leather

    Ken at Aero Leather Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,126
    So the $187K contract was also a Monarch AN-J-3A? I assume we are back at the drawing board?
    No AN-J-3 contract over the $50,000 mark? Two versions, 5000 piece order maximum for each, probably less? So how many of each?
    This is sounding closer to my (long term) original thinking but still on the high side numerically.
     
  9. Roughwear

    Roughwear Well-Known Member

    Have you ever seen an AN-J-3 jacket with a US government contract label in it Ken?
     
  10. Ken at Aero Leather

    Ken at Aero Leather Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,126
    Not once, however the large majority of those with missing labels (Say a dozen) had military label size and shape stitch holes marks in the lining.
     
    Technonut2112 and Roughwear like this.
  11. Carl

    Carl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    949
    Had i copied it down incorrectly ?
    Dohhh !!! :mad: i had that many numbersand makers written down in front of me i mighg have guessed id balls it up !
    Andrew is this now correct according to the list in the thread about G1's ?
    If so, thankyou for ammending . I wouldn't have had time to sort it out now ,until early next week .
     
  12. Stony

    Stony Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,310
    Location:
    WA, USA
    No M-422 info?
     
  13. Ken at Aero Leather

    Ken at Aero Leather Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,126
    I've been trying to put the rarity of the AN-J-3 into some perspective...if I'm honest I've been trying for decades:>).... I think it's the mystery more than anything that drives me, I've never worn one or kept one for myself
    If I compare the AN-J-3 to the 1938 & 1940 Aero Beacon Type A-2 contracts, which together totalled of 5000.
    We've also been looking for these two A-2s "forever", we've managed to get one of each which are in our showroom archive display, we've been outbid on maybe another 3 or 4, are aware of maybe a similar number in collections but I've handled considerably more AN-J-3s than I've even heard of from the two Aero contracts put together.
    Theoretically that would suggest there would have been more AN-J-3s (than 5000) made in 1943./44
     
  14. Roughwear

    Roughwear Well-Known Member

    All the AN-J-3s I have seen have either had a civi label in them or no label at all. I agree Ken. There must have been a significant number made by several makers and certainly more than 5000.
     
    Ken at Aero Leather likes this.
  15. Ken at Aero Leather

    Ken at Aero Leather Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,126
    Technonut2112

    Holly has found these below............She has 24 shots in a dropbox, if you (or anyone else) wants to see anything in particular let me know
    Someone here will be able to ID the origins of the doctored label I'm sure, not sure why that's such a small a file?

    VJ767Front.jpeg VJ767 Back.jpeg VJ767 Collar.jpeg VJ767 Label.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
    Technonut2112 likes this.
  16. Roughwear

    Roughwear Well-Known Member

    It looks like it could have started life an Aero A-3 trouser label.
     
    Ken at Aero Leather likes this.
  17. Ken at Aero Leather

    Ken at Aero Leather Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,126
    I can't speak for the rest of you folk, but I find the "discovering the AN-J-3" subject a far more interesting one than the Goldsmith A-2. Sacrilege? Hopefully not.
     
  18. Ken at Aero Leather

    Ken at Aero Leather Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,126
    Sounds logical we had lots of scrap trousers at the time, thanks Andrew
     
    Roughwear likes this.
  19. Dr H

    Dr H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,607
    Location:
    Somerset, UK
    I’d like to get to the bottom of why the labels were so diligently removed (and destroyed?) without any survivors turning up (or mistakes having been made).
    Odd.
     
    Roughwear likes this.
  20. Roughwear

    Roughwear Well-Known Member

    Presumably because the US Materiel Division decided not to issue the AN-J-3.
     

Share This Page