M422-a Versus G1.

London Cabbie

Well-Known Member
I am sure the differences have been discussed many times. I am interested in differences of fit and sizing. I have two 55j14 from different repro manufacturers and they both fit very different size 40. The variations in torso seem very different is that specific to different contracts..?
 

B-Man2

Well-Known Member
Stu
I can only offer general difference but here you are :
Basically the M-422a fits longer and trimmer in the torso than the G-1 . Some contracts also have shorter sleeves than the G-1 . The collar of the M-422a is longer and pointed . The knits are different on the M-422a . So basically a longer and trimmer body . Let me know if I can answer any other questions
 

B-Man2

Well-Known Member
Stu
This may help you a little .
Here’s a side by side photo of two original jackets . A Martin Lane G-1 on the right and a Willis & Geiger M-422a on the left . You can see some of the differences a little easier when you see the jackets side by side .
Cheers
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SteveN

Active Member
Stu
This may help you a little .
Here’s a side by side photo of two original jackets . A Martin Lane G-1 on the right and a Willis & Geiger M-422a on the left . You can see some of the differences a little easier when you see the jackets side by side .
Cheers View attachment 70159View attachment 70160
View attachment 70161
That's a great comparison. Makes me wonder though: why was the earlier spec so long? Was there are reason for this?
 

Brettafett

Well-Known Member
Yes, this is actually a broad discussion.
There are some very basic' differences (but these are not a rule), with both following the same basic spec/design... but there so much more to add.
Not as simple as it initially seems.
So, am looking forward to seeing what comes.
 

Grant

Well-Known Member
One major difference I've noticed between WWII USN flying jackets (M422/M422a/AN6552/ANJ3A) and later post WWII USN flying jackets not easily captured in photos is the quality of the goatskins used. It's quite apparent the USN spared no expense sourcing the best goatskins for their M422 and later M422a jackets. The hides on many pre-war M422 jackets are stunningly beautiful hides that have an almost translucent finish that looks as thought they were aniline dyed. Also, many later M422a jackets used beautiful goatskins that've stood the test of time and aged beautifully.

IMHO, the quality of the goatskins used back then is a major challenge for repro makers trying to emulate what the USN used 80 years ago.

Later 55J14 and 7823 series goatskins have a much more uniform finish that tends to show surface wear much more easily.
 

Nickb123

Well-Known Member
Could the shorter lengths of 55J14s, etc, follow alongside the short nylon jackets? I don’t know the reason.
 

Grant

Well-Known Member
Good question! The 1947 55J14 contract predates most 1950 nylon jackets, so maybe it was the start of a trend?
FWIW, Not all 55J14's were shorter in length. I've owned Star 55J14's that were just as long in length as M422a's.
 

Brettafett

Well-Known Member
I do not recall where, but I do recall being told in an email (possibly Jeff or Jacky Clyman) that (one of the) reasons for the 'shorter length' trend had to do with how the jacket fit in the cockpit. Less is more... Trying to reduce jacket bulging out when sitting in a small cramped cockpit full of dials & switches etc.
For safety reasons not wanting superfluous material bulging out and possibly snagging or getting caught on something. Could have been to do with all the webbing/ parachute gear etc... My words trying to recall... Happy to be corrected.
 

SteveN

Active Member
I do not recall where, but I do recall being told in an email (possibly Jeff or Jacky Clyman) that (one of the) reasons for the 'shorter length' trend had to do with how the jacket fit in the cockpit. Less is more... Trying to reduce jacket bulging out when sitting in a small cramped cockpit full of dials & switches etc.
For safety reasons not wanting superfluous material bulging out and possibly snagging or getting caught on something. Could have been to do with all the webbing/ parachute gear etc... My words trying to recall... Happy to be corrected.
I can see this as a good reason for a trimmer jacket, but would have thought this to occur to the earlier contracts, especially as the A2s are of the 'short' variety. What's odd, IMO, is that all the early contracts have a lot of length, so it's not a manufacturers interpertation of the spec.
 

Brettafett

Well-Known Member
I would not put too much credence to that comment above, I may have mis-remembered it anyway.
It was a reply to a comment I made about why Cockpit's jackets were shorter than other makers, for the same size....

I doesn't make much sense to me tbh, even if it was an actual consideration at some point.
More likely, it was due to them copying a specific original jacket, that happened to be short.

So much of this open to each makers interpretation (and materials available) of the original USN specification.
Bi-swing back, fur collar, inside pocket etc...

Some turned out boxier, some shorter, some longer, some trimmer...
And this within each designation also, M-422/ M-422A, AN..., G-1 etc

Another reason why this hobby is so interesting.
At first glance, hey they are both goatskin Navy jackets, with bi-swing backs and fur collars... Ha, yes, but look closer. And then compare details...
Some differences are easy to eye-ball, but there are many that are not so obvious.
 
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pierregloom

Active Member
I imagine the subject will take a part in your upcoming beginners guide, but as I've ordered my M422-A from AVI leather and it is without any stencil painted under the collar, I am wondering if somebody knew why it was sometimes painted in different colors (I've seen Black, Yellow, and silver/white ones) and why some have it on the right side of the collar when other have it centered?
In the many pictures I've watched, it appeared that Gordon & Ferguson for example could have : no stencil - yellow - or white/grey/silver.

I'm thinking about painting it on my future jacket (a stencil isn't the hardest thing to paint I guess), but the choice of a color and what painting to use isn't easy, but I may ask for this in the "Jacket art/Patches" section.

Before, I'm eager to learn about colors and positions of that stencil...
 

London Cabbie

Well-Known Member
I do not recall where, but I do recall being told in an email (possibly Jeff or Jacky Clyman) that (one of the) reasons for the 'shorter length' trend had to do with how the jacket fit in the cockpit. Less is more... Trying to reduce jacket bulging out when sitting in a small cramped cockpit full of dials & switches etc.
For safety reasons not wanting superfluous material bulging out and possibly snagging or getting caught on something. Could have been to do with all the webbing/ parachute gear etc... My words trying to recall... Happy to be corrected.
I imagine many of the changes to jackets would be in relation to changing harness and aircraft capability..?
 

London Cabbie

Well-Known Member
I imagine the subject will take a part in your upcoming beginners guide, but as I've ordered my M422-A from AVI leather and it is without any stencil painted under the collar, I am wondering if somebody knew why it was sometimes painted in different colors (I've seen Black, Yellow, and silver/white ones) and why some have it on the right side of the collar when other have it centered?
In the many pictures I've watched, it appeared that Gordon & Ferguson for example could have : no stencil - yellow - or white/grey/silver.

I'm thinking about painting it on my future jacket (a stencil isn't the hardest thing to paint I guess), but the choice of a color and what painting to use isn't easy, but I may ask for this in the "Jacket art/Patches" section.

Before, I'm eager to learn about colors and positions of that stencil...
Please post a review and photos, waiting to purchase one.
 
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