M-445B?

[tda003]

I'm posting this here with some misgivings. This jacket is up for auction. I've never heard of an M-445B before. If legitimate and not a repro, it's in phenomenal condition, possibly new condition:

. It's nothing remotely close to my size and I won't be bidding on it regardless of what it actually is. However, it's piqued my curiosity. Here's the label

 

[B-Man2]

Hi
If you would post a photo of the entire jacket that would help in getting it ID’d

 

[tda003]

Sure. There's only 1 however.

 

[MikeyB-17]

Repro. There were M-445B’s, and Willis and Geiger were a military contractor during the war (not sure if they actually made M-445B’s though). The name was resurrected for repro jackets a while ago, I think they were swallowed up by US Authentic, and I’m pretty sure that’s one of those-I had an M-444, not the most authentic, but a decent jacket. Can’t tell from that, but the sheepskins had 1960’s paperclip zips.

 

[Grant]

You can tell if it's an original by looking at the zip. My bet is it's an original M445B from 1943. It's the last of 6 M445/M445A and M445B contracts Willis & Geiger had from 1940 - 1943. Gordon & Ferguson and Monarch also had M445B contracts. Hope that helps.

 

[tda003]

Actually, I thought so. I low balled a bid on a WG repro M-422A short time ago and ended up with it at under $200 including premium and shipping. It has beautiful leather and mouton collar. I noticed it doesn't have the "USN" stencil under the collar nor the required 7 lines of reinforcing stitching. They're not noticeable when wearing the jacket which is probably why they were omitted, likely to save manufacturing costs. However, a quite decent repro overall.

If the M-445B is as well made, I'd probably bid if it were my size.

 

[John Lever]

W &G did make repro like this but the label looks too good. I think the repro label was simply m445 no b designation. But looking at the fleece and leather surface it looks very different from most other 70 year old versions.

 

[bazelot]

do you have a picture of the zipper?

 

[tda003]

No. Unfortunately, the only picture is the one that I posted and there's no direct communication. It puts the on site bidders at a distinct advantage.

 

[tda003]

Sometimes, you have to back into authenticity. An old website showing the Willis and Geiger "The Collection" shows shows that they made an M-445A as well as A-2, G-8, G-1 and B-3 jactets. No M-445B. So it looks as if it may be authentic vintage.

 

[John Lever]

I say repro, it looks too good to be 70 years old.
The originals had amazing coloured fleece with a deep oily sheen that repro jackets don't have

 

[MikeyB-17]

Yeah I agree. What little I can see of the zip looks like a bit of the bent brass of a paperclip style job. And the fleece has a similar texture to the M-444 I had.

 

[John Lever]

Most W&G repros don't have the reinforced collar backing.

ＵＳＥＤ美品 ＷＩＬＬＩＳ＆ＧＥＩＧＥＲ．ＩＮ... - ヤフオク!

1980年代頃の"WILLIS&GEIGER" US NAVY M-445 TYPE LEATHER FLIGHT JKT。40年代、アメリカ海軍航空部隊に支給された"M-445"というモデルを、"WILLIS & GEIGER"社が復刻.ボディはムートン+シープスキン、襟裏、脇下、肘、ポケット、ストームフラップなどには耐久性の高いゴートレザーを使用♪少しシミと汚れが有りますが、綺麗な状態です。■素材：ムートン■フロント・ジッパー：

page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp

 

[MikeyB-17]

I gotta admit I’m starting to wonder. Haven’t seen a pic anywhere of a repro W&G M-445B. 445 yes, B no. And the leather sections don’t look like the stuff on the repro versions. Wouldn’t be the first time I’ve been talking out my arse.

 

[tda003]

Has anyone actually seen an M-445B repro. Seems like a lot of trouble to make a one off including a single label. I've never seen a WG M-445B, let alone a repro. Anyone. Just doesn't seem logical. I don't even know the difference between 445, 445A & 445B. what are they?

 

[B-Man2]

I don’t know if I’m helping or adding to the confusion but I own a repro W&G, but it’s an M-444. So here’s the tag . The jacket looks similar to the one posted .I know it’s not relevant but, I also have the original issued shearling flying pants that go with the jacket .

 

[tda003]

Additional pictures.

 

[tda003]

Just for the hell of it, what's the difference between an M-445, M-445A and M-445B. That could help. However, I don't understand someone going to that much trouble for an obscure flight jacket. There's just no market for it or there'd be a few more out there. WG didn't make one as a repro.

 

[Grant]

Yup, as I suspected, that's an original M445B. Thanks for the pic of the brass Talon.

 

[Pilot]

Just for the hell of it, what's the difference between an M-445, M-445A and M-445B. That could help. However, I don't understand someone going to that much trouble for an obscure flight jacket. There's just no market for it or there'd be a few more out there. WG didn't make one as a repro.

There are books and docs… took the writers and editors a lot of time and efforts to compose these…
One of those books is the famous ‚Full Gear‘..,
This book has most probably all contracts all labels and contracts and all photos of what’s available …of major contracts …but its called… huuuhhh expensive.. ( screw it)..
Many promises and empty words to edit a similar one… ( nothing.. … since … 2015… or longer…).
Wet dreams!..