Loose Fitting Original A-2

[CoopDog]

This is a photo of a friend of my father taken in May 1944 a day or two after he completed his tour of 30 bombing missions with the 8th Air Force, including 6 trips to Berlin.

Notice how loose fitting and big his A-2 is:

 

[B-Man2]

Nice photo.... great example of how the fit of WWII jackets was all over the place.

 

[CoopDog]

I would imagine the air crewmen went to the quartermaster and tried on some jackets and picked the one that they thought fit the best or liked the way it felt. Flying at altitude was cold. Even the pilots had at least a tee shirt and flight suit underneath and perhaps a sweater, not to mention the electrically heated underwear (although I am not sure the pilots actually wore that on bombing missions) But, if they were looking ahead when they picked out their jackets, they would have wanted them a bit roomy.

 

[B-Man2]

I would imagine the air crewmen went to the quartermaster and tried on some jackets and picked the one that they thought fit the best or liked the way it felt. Flying at altitude was cold. Even the pilots had at least a tee shirt and flight suit underneath and perhaps a sweater, not to mention the electrically heated underwear (although I am not sure the pilots actually wore that on bombing missions) But, if they were looking ahead when they picked out their jackets, they would have wanted them a bit roomy.

Welcome to the forum BTW....
We have talked about this and debated WWII “jacket fit” at infinitum for years. You’re going to fit right in here

 

[CoopDog]

You’re going to fit right in here

I see what you did there. Thanks!

 

[jeremiah]

I have a theory.
leather can stretch. I wonder how many of these looser jackets fit a little better when new but after throwing them over more layers, eventually the leather stretched and the jacket wore more loose like that when worn with less layers. Just a theory.

 

[CoopDog]

I have a theory.
leather can stretch. I wonder how many of these looser jackets fit a little better when new but after throwing them over more layers, eventually the leather stretched and the jacket wore more loose like that when worn with less layers. Just a theory.

Could be. I know the gentleman in the picture also had a B-3 which I have seen him wearing in another photo. He was a pilot, so I don't know whether he wore the B-3 while flying or just on the ground. Unfortunately, he is no longer with us, so I cannot ask him.

But, something he did tell me once, is that he did not wear his officers crush cap while flying like they show in the movies. He wore a leather flying helmet like in the picture, and while over occupied territory a flak helmet over that. They also had flak vests. He told me they were too bulky for the pilots to wear, so he often sat on his flak vest to protect the family jewels. (He was about 5'7", so it helped him sit higher too) They often had their googles down because windows sometimes got shot out. They were also on oxygen for over 6 hours for some missions. He said everything was covered up except for a small triangle on each cheek bone between the top of the oxygen mask and the bottom of their goggles. They would get frostbite on each spot of the cheekbone. So, they were all bundled up and covered up. Not like in the movies.

 

[seres]

I have a theory.
leather can stretch. I wonder how many of these looser jackets fit a little better when new but after throwing them over more layers, eventually the leather stretched and the jacket wore more loose like that when worn with less layers. Just a theory.

I’ve heard from several pilots of that era that the issued A-2 was usually so stiff that it could “stand on its own”. After its broken in I’m sure it has enlarged slightly, especially under the rigors of several hundred hours in flight.

 

[Tom Bowers]

Also not uncommon for men to loose a significant amount of weight during their time flying combat missions

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

I’ve heard from several pilots of that era that the issued A-2 was usually so stiff that it could “stand on its own”. After its broken in I’m sure it has enlarged slightly, especially under the rigors of several hundred hours in flight.

Not sure I agree on that one
Horween Horsehide jackets always stand up on their own when new and often fit like a box in the early days
Once broken in they fit much better, neater, rather than bigger
The much quoted old saying goes "The worst your Aero Horsehide jacket will ever look is on the day you first get it" Not sure who coined that phrase, I do know it wasn't anybody at Aero

 

[jeremiah]

Were they using Horween horsehide in WWII?
From my own experience, my ELC fit better after it settled in.

 

[Southoftheborder]

Were they using Horween horsehide in WWII?

Not for jackets anyway. It was Aero who started the trend for using heavy leather for civilian repros. Forties originals were made in FQHH but not thick stiff stuff like that.

 

[jeremiah]

Gotcha.
didn’t check on timeframe for Horween.
they make good leather though.

 

[Silver Surfer]

interesting question, j. i believe that horween has been in biz for many years, quite possibly since the 1930s. i goggled horween and they appear to have been in biz since 1905. with the need for a-2 jackets [and other leather gear] after 1941, i would assume that horween supplied hides to various makers during the war years.

 

[CoopDog]

interesting question, j. i believe that horween has been in biz for many years, quite possibly since the 1930s.

Wikipedia says "Isadore Horween founded the company in 1905, and worked in it until 1949."

 

[Southoftheborder]

interesting question, j. i believe that horween has been in biz for many years, quite possibly since the 1930s.

Yes they have. But CXL was mainly used for shoe leather and other heavy uses. I am pretty certain that it was Aero who first started using it for jackets. About the time that the Connolly they had been using became too expensive I think.

 

[Southoftheborder]

There is a nice pre CXL Connolly Aero HWM dating to about 1982/3 on eBay UK at the moment. I sold one like it with the same label a couple of years ago after getting it relined by Aero. This hide is lovely stuff and smells of roses from the tanning.

Aero Vintage Belst Highwayman Bilt Steerhide Eastman Leather Acne Jacket Kelso | eBay

Men's Vintage Aero Highwayman in Steerhide Leather. <br> <br>Black in colour. <br> <br>Green tartan lining. <br> <br>Usual high quality from Aero. <br> <br>Marked size 44 but fits more like 42 to be honest. Measurements are available on request. <br> <br>Has had a replacement main zip. <br>...

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[jeremiah]

I know the CXL is what Horween is primarily known for today but surely they would have tanned hides that were used in A2 contracts If they were that old of a company. They would have been well known by then. Surely they didn’t start with CXL.

 

[Southoftheborder]

I know the CXL is what Horween is primarily known for today but surely they would have tanned hides that were used in A2 contracts If they were that old of a company. They would have been well known by then. Surely they didn’t start with CXL.

I think the Horween subject came up because KC was referring to CXL in his post about Horween jackets standing up by themselves. That's what I meant when I wrote that it wasn't used in the war. I have no idea if other Horween HH was used in A2s then.

 

[DiamondDave]

CXL would not have been used during the war. As far as I know it is a later invention of the current family member running Horween. That spec is best used for boot shanks, and uppers.This leather did not exist in the 30’s & 40’s. And yes Horween was one of dozens of contractors for the AAF.
DD