• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Kelso 23380 vs Eastman 1401P

1970Novass

New Member
As new to A-2 quality, history, etc. I've been doing research on buying my 1st A-2 and it seems the bigger names for original repo A-2's are Good Wear, Bill Kelso, and Eastman. I'm sure there are more but these are the names most often referred to on this forum.
So with the time wait on GW I've decided on a Kelso RW AC-23380 or an Eastman RW 1401P
So my question: is the quality better between the 2?
Or let's say if you had your choice which one would you order ?
Also I see Eastman offers a "time worn" option- BK may too but I don't see that on their webite ? any input on that would help too
any help would be appreciated Thanks Ed
 

Rutger

Well-Known Member
I had a time worn Werber 4 years ago but the time worn part wasn't impressive; I wouldn't spend money on it if buying new.
Maybe there are people with more recent experiences with that.

BK's leather is generally more grainy than from ELC, but it seems ELC may be picking up on that.
Leather wise BK would be my choice.
Basic quality is the same as far as I can determine from the one BK and several Eastmans I have or have had.

Recent samples from BK seemed to have very little taper at the sleeves so at this moment that would be my personal concern if buying from them.

ELC won't customize, BK is very flexible if you want to customize your jacket.

Check the return conditions as buying leather jackets (fit wise) is a tricky thing on the 'net.

It might be a good idea to start with a second hand jacket, the cost is lower and you get a feel for measurements.
 

Silver Surfer

Well-Known Member
i think that elc will do a size in long, but it is non returnable. bk has made a-2s to customers measurements. quality wise, both bk, and elc are top of the line. at 6'3" it will be difficult, if not impossible to find a used jac from either companies that will be a proper fit for ya. ya should keep an eye on the good wear site for a-2s that are for sale, as they are often in a size 44-46. happy hunting.
 

zhz44

Active Member
ELC and BK are both top jacket maker.
Leather wise, they are all very good, and have different characters. Leather from ELC is more stiff, BK's Liberty HH is more grainy and arguably more close to the original leather.

Fit wise, BK is more flexible as you can do full customise. As pointed out, some times, the sleeve from BK is not as taper as ELC/GW, but I believe you can customise this.

Another thing is, arguably again, I think BK is more accurate than ELC in most contracts.

ELC werber 1756 is their best A2 jacket, and I think AERO 18775 and Werber 1402-p (maybe star as well) are best from BK. I remember in the review from one member (cmk-2 if I am right) the BK aero(arco) 18775 is as good as GW, or even better.
 

foster

Well-Known Member
I am also 6'3". I have owned both Eastman and Kelso jackets within recent history.

Personally, I would recommend Bill Kelso between the two. Customization is easier (and likely necessary given your height). Eastman leather is nice but is nearly waterproof and stiff. Kelso is much more supple out of the box, it only stiffens if you get it soaking wet. The Kelso has wide sleeve cuffs but Eastman is likely to have the pockets placed high. Kelso is also more likely to have a promotional sale as well. My Kelso fits my shoulders much better, whereas the Eastman one has shoulders that seem to droop more on my frame. The difference there being the Kelso was made to measurements I provided, whereas with Eastman you pick a size and make the best of it.
 

Skip

Well-Known Member
Bk are ow doing slim fits as advertised on their FB page, stating Roughwear at this stage. But as mentioned above if you give the enough info they'll suit to the jacket. I'm 6'2" They made the An-J-3 as a specific request, they also changed the pattern of their Duke to fit my wife. The most important thing is you need to stress how you want it to look, including tapering sleeves
 

1970Novass

New Member
I have emailed Andy at BK and just sent my measurements. I'll wait to see if he needs anything else.
I am wanting a more 'supple' jacket and with my height BK looks like the place.
Now to pick a maker ? I thought the 23380 but another poster says the Aero 18775 is arguably their
Most correct jacket.
Decisions Decisions :)
Keep advice coming - U guys in Europe are all right - or wherever ur from - heck my grandparents were all from Itay so maybe we're related
Thanks for all ur advice
 

Skip

Well-Known Member
1970Novass said:
I have emailed Andy at BK and just sent my measurements. I'll wait to see if he needs anything else.
I am wanting a more 'supple' jacket and with my height BK looks like the place.
Now to pick a maker ? I thought the 23380 but another poster says the Aero 18775 is arguably their
Most correct jacket.
Decisions Decisions :)

I ordered an Aero 18875 from them a while back, but omitted to mention to change the chest to a 21', for a size 40 BK its near 23', and the extra 2 inches makes a difference, it swam on me from chest to bottom knit, I ended up selling it (that was my fault not BK'S). The hide was great though, if you like grain Victory Horse is sensational, and supple and quite thick (heavy), the liberty is more truer to WW2 colours, and better now I'm led to believe still with plenty of character.

As for makers, go with the jacket style that suits your body shape, for example the 18775 isn't a trim style jacket, its more loose and comfortable, Whereas the Werber is more tight in the shoulders and chest, and the sleeves and body taper to the knits.

I learn't a lot by going to the Goodwear site and looking at all the styles and reading the description. John has a wealth of knowledge there about fit of each maker and different details of each jacket.
 

Cobblers161

Well-Known Member
I'll be listing 2 GW's later on today.

A 44" seal 18775 Aero that is 25.5" down the back and a russet Dubow size 46" that is 25" down the back. Let me know if you have an interest and I'll give you first dibs.

Both have lots of grain :)

Best,
Steve
 

1970Novass

New Member
Thanks Steve for the offer
But I'm thinking for my first jacket and being 6'3 I should work with a maker
on a size that'll fit me. I'm working off of shirt measurements now as I don't have an A-2 to measure.
I'm thinking 27 inches down the back but checking my emails this morning (Chicago) Andy hasn't emailed me yet. I thing England is 6 hours difference.
FYI
Shoulder to shoulder 21 inches
Pit to pit 26 inches
Chest 45 1/2 inches
Sleeve 28 inches
Not sure about collar to waist
That may help
 

RayR

Member
pawine said:
Another option, at an introductory price... patterns and material selection by Goodwear, constructed by Diamond Dave.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Good-Wear-Leath ... 43d5d3942b

Another buyer noted that he will take all of your dimensions and produce MTO. Results from that buyer posted here:

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthre ... light=acme

With that said, I don't think you can go wrong with any of the options you've noted so far.

Well said :) and you even included links! You did all my work for me . I wanted to mention the Diamond Dave option and there is one thing I can add. Dave is using Good Ware patterns and materials...that's why they look, feel, and fit so awesome . It's like getting a GW without the wait.
I have the Aero style with the Combat Crew finish. I won't repeat all the information available in the review at the given link. I did wanna mention that Dave has a variety of other GW patterns available on his website if the Aero is not your cup of tea. I believe right now you will find a better price on his eBay links. I found it really difficult to find his webpage so here's the link. http://Www.diamondclothing.com I would not hesitate to buy from him again or to recommend him right at the top of the list
 

1970Novass

New Member
I viewed Diamond Dave's jackets on ebay and they look really nice.
Seems the difference - Question - cowhide vs horsehide ?
Any thoughts ?
 

foster

Well-Known Member
Diamond Dave doesn't make A-2 jacket with collar stands (not at this time anyway, but I would expect them in the future, fingers crossed!). Rough Wear jackets all had a collar stand.
 

pawine

New Member
1970Novass said:
I viewed Diamond Dave's jackets on ebay and they look really nice.
Seems the difference - Question - cowhide vs horsehide ?
Any thoughts ?

Without touching on the historical aspect of that decision, since I am no expert in that, I think it's been fairly well established that most of us (don't shoot me, I didn't say all) can't really tell the difference once it's been made into a jacket. Because both can be tanned and treated a myriad of ways, IMHO, you should choose something that has the type of finish you desire, and not worry as much about horse vs cow.
 

RayR

Member
RayR said:
pawine said:
Another option, at an introductory price... patterns and material selection by Goodwear, constructed by Diamond Dave.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Good-Wear-Leath ... 43d5d3942b

Another buyer noted that he will take all of your dimensions and produce MTO. Results from that buyer posted here:

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthre ... light=acme

With that said, I don't think you can go wrong with any of the options you've noted so far.

Well said :) and you even included links! You did all my work for me . I wanted to mention the Diamond Dave option and there is one thing I can add. Dave is using Good Ware patterns and materialshttp:[/url]...that's why they look, feel, and fit so awesome . It's like getting a GW without the wait.
I have the Aero style with the Combat Crew finish. I won't repeat all the information available in the review at the given link. I did wanna mention that Dave has a variety of other GW patterns available on his website if the Aero is not your cup of tea. I believe right now you will find a better price on his eBay links. I found it really difficult to find his webpage so here's the link. http://www.diamondclothingco.com/ I would not hesitate to buy from him again or to recommend him right at the top of the list
 

1970Novass

New Member
After talking to Dave at Diamond Daves I just pulled the trigger on his A-2 !
He does custom jackets - which I need - so I went for it !
3 week wait - looks like another sherif in town !
Thanks to all for the help
 

pawine

New Member
1970Novass said:
After talking to Dave at Diamond Daves I just pulled the trigger on his A-2 !
He does custom jackets - which I need - so I went for it !
3 week wait - looks like another sherif in town !
Thanks to all for the help

Congrats, he's got a great reputation and I've loved every jacket of his that I've seen. And 3 weeks is super fast in the world of jacket makers.
 

RayR

Member
1970Novass said:
After talking to Dave at Diamond Daves I just pulled the trigger on his A-2 !
He does custom jackets - which I need - so I went for it !
3 week wait - looks like another sherif in town !
Thanks to all for the help

I look forward to your pics =)
 
Top