Jacket fit.

[petermack09]

The fake is probably quartz. I bought a GMT Master in 1988 and thought it kept pretty shit time. I went back several times to get it checked and finally I dragged out of the watchmaker that it was supposed to be accurate to +- 1 second per day. That's 30 seconds a month. I had an RAF surplus fully jewelled International from the post war period that was more accurate than that.

That was a lovely watch BTW, which also let in the rain. But I wish I hadn't passed that to on to a friend. The price of the things went through the roof a few years later. But I bought it from a surplus store for £35 in the late seventies and didn't even know what a good watch it was. A lot better than the Rolex. I always thought I should have worn a sign with that thing: I am a prat I bought a Rolex.

I kept that for twenty years though before buying a nice Omega Seamaster quartz that still keeps perfect time.

Lol,,,the fake Daytona is actually a mechanical watch that is wound every 2nd day ,,it’s accurate to +1 a day,,watches are like jackets ,,if you like them buy them & wear them,I don’t care what anyone else thinks,fake or genuine or original,,stupid looking is a different ballgame

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

Both copies DD. One is substantially better than the other, but both are still copies. Not that that's a bad thing but I think sometimes guys seem to equate the very good copy with being on par with, or the same as an original when it's not.

One A-2 wes modified at the customer's request and has had 2" off the standard Aero sleeve length and 1&1/2" off the standard Aero body length
The other appears to be a long fit judging by John's height and the length of the jacket body
The shoulder seam / epaullettes of the longer jacket fall off the shoulder more than on the short one.

Neither are truely repesentative of a WW2 Aero fit

 

[DiamondDave]

Ken

See,this is the problem. You are presented with facts, and still you double down and answer something irrelevant. The fact of the matter is you like most of us are self taught, and will not be dissuaded from doing things your way. That’s fine for civvy jackets, but these Military jackets have rules to which you do not adhere. Much like your assertion a few years ago that that pocket sizes change with jacket size. Also patently false.

DD

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

Many moons ago I owned a very early AC Cobra, (1962) on the shabby side, previously raced at Riverside LHD
I drove it around a lot and was regularily told by repro experts all the details that were wrong with my "repro"
That was until I pointed out the "AC" on the Road Tax disc
Most had probably never seen a real one

 

[DiamondDave]

Ken,

Ah so ignorance is bliss for you? I see, so if they don’t notice it is done incorrectly, who are you to tell them, huh? Seems a bit mercenary. Why not change the patterns and do it correctly? Why not add a V shape to the front as they should have? Why not sew with the right needles? Why not sew epaulets correctly? Pockets correctly? Collars correctly?

just saying, the arguments you make are not convincing, but they are conniving.
DD

 

[ZuZu]

Good to have you back, Jeff!
I think it's cool to point out inaccuracies in repro A-2's with the hope the makers pay attention and make corrections. When you're paying upwards of a grand for a jacket, that's the least to expect.

Thanks Grant! I've been stalking you looking on in awe at your beautiful collection of originals! Plus I can see that like me you try to stay in WW2 shape- skinny enough to fit into WW2 jackets!

 

[ZuZu]

One A-2 wes modified at the customer's request and has had 2" off the standard Aero sleeve length and 1&1/2" off the standard Aero body length
The other appears to be a long fit judging by John's height and the length of the jacket body
The shoulder seam / epaullettes of the longer jacket fall off the shoulder more than on the short one.

Neither are truely repesentative of a WW2 Aero fit

Aww come on! The shiny black monkey-suit jacket in no way looks like an original in either fit or finish! Even with the customer alterations it could have looked semi-realistic! Original Aeros did fit like the GW-

 

[KariJ]

Not related to repro jackets but related to mil gear issued to "privates" All of these bear the same NATO number (433320). All of these T -shirts are sage/olive green 3 of these (calculating from top) are NATO number 7 (44) The last individual is size 8 (46). The lenght of sleeves varies +- 2 cm Lenght varies even +-7 cm. Same pattern In 3/4 cases made by GCT one made by Leo Köhler GMbH. Just makes me wonder what is "real fit" and accuracy enough No offence I wear these daily in "business way". Mister Einstein said everything is related.

 

[dinomartino1]

Gents,

You cannot tell me that you think that these two things are the same...

Not the same price anyway $875 vs $1549.
I get your point but there is a considerable price difference.
GW should only in all fairness should only be compared with the Japanese and eastman the other repros in the same price range unless somebody thinks there is cheaper repro as good or better than any of those a comparison is valid.
Comparing a ford to a cadillac is only stating the obvious.

I don't want to be dragged into this catfight just trying to be objective.

 

[DiamondDave]

Not the same price anyway $875 vs $1549.
I get your point but there is a considerable price difference.
GW should only in all fairness should only be compared with the Japanese and eastman the other repros in the same price range unless somebody thinks there is cheaper repro as good or better than any of those a comparison is valid.
Comparing a ford to a cadillac is only stating the obvious.

I don't want to be dragged into this catfight just trying to be objective.

Dino,

No worries and a cat fight is not what this is. Ken has told anyone who will listen for years, that he makes the finest reproduction period, with the most accurate parts, and that is absolutely not true.
You guys have to understand that Ken has brought this on himself, for the extended period he has gotten away with bashing literally everyone else. It has been reported to me by several people who said he told them “you shouldn’t work with David”, “hes an idiot, and will wreck your good name”. All in an attempt to get me out of this business. Luckily my friend and mentor knew better. See JC and I have been friends since we first spoke in 2006, but Ken doesn’t know that.

DD

 

[mulceber]

good question, grant. my one big bugaboo on the aero repro is that aero does not source proper repro nipple snaps, as just about all of the better makers do. the ones that aero uses are generic leather garment snaps.

Is that an inaccuracy? I just thought the contracts Aero-Scotland reproduced had United Carr snaps...

 

[dinomartino1]

Dino,

No worries and a cat fight is not what this is. Ken has told anyone who will listen for years, that he makes the finest reproduction period, with the most accurate parts, and that is absolutely not true.
You guys have to understand that Ken has brought this on himself, for the extended period he has gotten away with bashing literally everyone else. It has been reported to me by several people who said he told them “you shouldn’t work with David”, “hes an idiot, and will wreck your good name”. All in an attempt to get me out of this business. Luckily my friend and mentor knew better. See JC and I have been friends since we first spoke in 2006, but Ken doesn’t know that.

DD

A shame JC left, a really nice bloke.
When he started selling the jacket cd it became my bible.

 

[stanier]

Hi Jeff.

Welcome back to the forum. Did you used to go by the username Rottenheim (my spelling could be off)? If so, I recall you were very knowledgeable about originals, especially Roughwears.

Ken

I think you could well be correct Ken. Rottenhann (if correctly remembered spelling) maybe ZuZu.

With the current high temperatures being set by ZuZu, DD and Aero Ken who will be the fourth horseman of the VLJ apocalypse? And who are they foretelling the coming of..?

Anyone who’s been thinking the forum is now a pale shadow of its former self may be in for a surprise. And no AVI, Five Star or Dong will protect you...they will be toast...

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

Dino,

No worries and a cat fight is not what this is. Ken has told anyone who will listen for years, that he makes the finest reproduction period, with the most accurate parts, and that is absolutely not true.
You guys have to understand that Ken has brought this on himself, for the extended period he has gotten away with bashing literally everyone else. It has been reported to me by several people who said he told them “you shouldn’t work with David”, “hes an idiot, and will wreck your good name”. All in an attempt to get me out of this business. Luckily my friend and mentor knew better. See JC and I have been friends since we first spoke in 2006, but Ken doesn’t know that.

DD

Now we are getting to the real reason for DD tirades
In the order this occurred

1 JC and I have done business together since since the late 1990s. Maybe 6/7 years ago JC asked Aero to make a stock range of "Off the peg" A-2s for Goodwear. I told him OK but on the strict understanding that no way should this be made public as his customers wouldn't accept "a biggish firm" making for such a micro outfit, especially if it was Aero, the VLJ mafia would set about JC and it would do neither of us any good. JC agreed but before any Aero Scotland made GWs" arrived in USA the collaboration was let out of the bag. We told JC there was no point in carrying on and we were already struggling to keep up with current orders anyway. Our A-2s have the longest lead time of all our styles
2 JC told me he was going to be training someone up. I'd seen DD's civvy jacket work and said to John to allow a decent time scale to the training. When JC told me he was training DD "over the phone" I wished him luck and told him to prepare for a lot of trainee jackets
That was that as far as I was concerned
3 Then I saw the way DD was advertising these trainee jascket on ebay blatently insinuating these were "Goodwear" jackets. That's when I rung John (as a friend) and told him that in my opinion he was devaluing the Goodwear Brand. The one sided hate campaign began..........I felt for John who is far too nice a guy to watch his own back

 

[Brettafett]

Not the same price anyway $875 vs $1549.
I get your point but there is a considerable price difference.
GW should only in all fairness should only be compared with the Japanese and eastman the other repros in the same price range unless somebody thinks there is cheaper repro as good or better than any of those a comparison is valid.
Comparing a ford to a cadillac is only stating the obvious.

I guess price plays a part, when comparing something like GW to AVI or 5 Star... But between GW, ELC, BK, Aero and Platon... the 'top-tiers'...not so much. It becomes relative. Platon's Dubows for example, are cheaper than Aero's original contract A-2s, and are still super accurate and faithful to original Dubows, on almost all accounts. Quality, workmanship and detail, easily comparable to a GW, ELC or BK.
And Im not saying better... or worse... but same quality and standard, even though there's a noticeable price difference.

 

[Micawber]

I think you could well be correct Ken. Rottenhann (if correctly remembered spelling) maybe ZuZu.

With the current high temperatures being set by ZuZu, DD and Aero Ken who will be the fourth horseman of the VLJ apocalypse? And who are they foretelling the coming of..?

Anyone who’s been thinking the forum is now a pale shadow of its former self may be in for a surprise. And no AVI, Five Star or Dong will protect you...they will be toast...

Nearly choked on my cornflakes when I read this earlier...

To my mind these shenanigans all seem a little orchestrated. Is that another bunch of cavalry waiting for the bugle call just over the hill?

 

[DiamondDave]

Now we are getting to the real reason for DD tirades
In the order this occurred

1 JC and I have done business together since since the late 1990s. Maybe 6/7 years ago JC asked Aero to make a stock range of "Off the peg" A-2s for Goodwear. I told him OK but on the strict understanding that no way should this be made public as his customers wouldn't accept "a biggish firm" making for such a micro outfit, especially if it was Aero, the VLJ mafia would set about JC and it would do neither of us any good. JC agreed but before any Aero Scotland made GWs" arrived in USA the collaboration was let out of the bag. We told JC there was no point in carrying on and we were already struggling to keep up with current orders anyway. Our A-2s have the longest lead time of all our styles
2 JC told me he was going to be training someone up. I'd seen DD's civvy jacket work and said to John to allow a decent time scale to the training. When JC told me he was training DD "over the phone" I wished him luck and told him to prepare for a lot of trainee jackets
That was that as far as I was concerned
3 Then I saw the way DD was advertising these trainee jascket on ebay blatently insinuating these were "Goodwear" jackets. That's when I rung John (as a friend) and told him that in my opinion he was devaluing the Goodwear Brand. The one sided hate campaign began..........I felt for John who is far too nice a guy to watch his own back

That narrative certainly fits your profile Ken. That is NOT how it happened, and luckily emails can be saved forever. Are you entirely sure you wish to go down this road?

I personally have been bashed long enough by you, and simply saw a like minded individual pop up on here, (no idea it was Jeff when this started), with which I could agree.

If your products indeed speak for themselves in such a way, why won’t you answer any of the earlier questions about those jackets? Why do you avoid questions, and then only go on the attack about irrelevant parts of certain posts?

And now, in the other thread you are playing your very favorite card, that of victim. You Ken are no victim, your mouth got you into this and some honest communication could get you out. Take some ownership of these
Products and say, “Wow, I didn’t know that, I have learned something” but no, you just keep doubling down on how “picked on” you are.

DD

 

[ZuZu]

Nearly choked on my cornflakes when I read this earlier...

To my mind these shenanigans all seem a little orchestrated. Is that another bunch of cavalry waiting for the bugle call just over the hill?

No conspiracy here- conspiracy to what? I just like to critique jackets and my interest cycle has brought me back to the forum. I really don't think I've been out of line AT ALL here. What is wrong- on a vintage leather jacket forum- with giving an HONEST critique of reproduction jackets? The pictures tell the whole story. Aero of Scotland brings this upon itself by claiming their jackets are "Manufactured using original old paper patterns taken from several dismantled WW2 jackets from our pattern archives,, we can guarantee that our current 42-18775-P fits identically to the equivalent WW2 issue jacket,..." when this so obviously is not true. I would LOVE it if Aero of Scotland did make more accurate jackets (and fixed their stitching)- as each repro maker makes better jackets we have better choice! Aero of Scotland sadly has a lot to fix as far as A-2 jackets is concerned.

Don't be distracted by deflection- nobody is bullshitting here in this critique. Don't care about the personal stuff- just the jackets...

 

[Brettafett]

... as each repro maker makes better jackets we have better choice!

Yes!

 

[MikeyB-17]

Years ago if anyone was too critical of modern repro makers they got shouted down and accused of nitpicking, and it was asserted that it was impossible to accurately reproduce a WWII A-2 today. 'If you're so concerned about accuracy, buy original' was trotted out ad nauseam. In fact I recall Rotenhahn was one of the few voices crying in the wilderness who said that manufacturers could do a better job than they were doing. Then John Chapman started Goodwear, and showed that a far more accurate repro A-2 was indeed possible. As long as it's kept civil and makers are prepared to take the constructive criticism on board, resulting in better jackets for all, I don't see a problem with a bit of nitpicking. Originals are now in the region of 70+ years old, and I for one will not be wearing one down the pub any time soon. And I don't see why we shouldn't aspire to as accurate a repro as possible. Then again we need to be prepared to pay for it!