Ja Dubow 27798 (Platon) A-2 jacket review and pics

[KariJ]

He's probably the exception rather than the rule. I think for the most part whilst there was a pride in wearing these things, for most airmen this seems to have come not from the objects themselves but rather the pride of the service attachment it showed, probably in much the same way as divisional and regimental flashes for infantry, artillery, armoured, etc. Your A-2 showed you were an airmen, and that was the big thing. I'd wager that most of them at the time couldn't tell you without looking and reading the label who made their A-2 and none of them gave a flying firetruck what colour it was, if one of the pockets was wonky, if it had a coffee stain down the front, etc, etc. All the airmen I have known and have spoken to about their flying kit didn't really think much more of it than it was working gear - tools to get the job done. However unsurprisingly every single one had held onto his dress uniform and that is where the real sense of pride was manifested. To be expected really, it showed his service, his formation attachment, his rank, his awards and campaign medals - this is the manifestation of his military career.

We love these jackets but I think that because of this we bestow an importance on them that goes far beyond what the men who actually wore them felt.

Correct in military forces and much more correct in military forces that still are based on conscription (as I think You guys in Norway still have). As I have many times said and also how many experts have referrd those interviews of veterans. Those were just pieces what one got. Everybody collects and enjoys the best what they can, but that is not a "law, nor religion". For example I am wearing Swedish M39 pants when hunting elk because those still are good, warm, silent etc.... https://www.hessenantique.com/Swedish_M39_Wool_Field_Pants_Used_p/s91881520.htm

 

[Micawber]

Not sure it’s just back row but check out the front, as discussed here before sizing was all over the place
Just a thought, I assume the new crew got what was handed to them, would there have been a way of returning and exchanging kit, possibly when there wasn’t a whole gaggle of crew at the stores??,anyone here offer any thoughts on this?

Swapping among crews, mates, squadrons, barracks etc seems to have played a part.

 

[Smithy]

Correct in military forces and much more correct in military forces that still are based on conscription (as I think You guys in Norway still have). As I have many times said and also how many experts have referrd those interviews of veterans. Those were just pieces what one got. It still does not in my opinion to collect and wear and value anything one desires. For example I am wearing Swedish M39 pants when hunting elk because those still are good, warm, silent etc.... https://www.hessenantique.com/Swedish_M39_Wool_Field_Pants_Used_p/s91881520.htm

Very true. Some mil spec stuff is well made, well designed and functional. I was talking about this in relation to the German Winterjacke parkas in another thread just the other day.

The thing is with the A-2 is that it isn't terribly well designed nor perfectly functional, yet we venerate it hugely (me included) but this is born from the associated connotations and nostalgia of those who wore it and all that conveys, Mustangs, B-17s, Jugs, etc, etc.

Military men usually aren't caught up in that same nostalgia, the perfect example being just how many swapped or stopped using their A-2s when the B-10 became available. As a lot of guys here know I have a big interest in the 4th FG and it is remarkable how in a ridiculously short space of time you see nearly everyone wearing A-2s at briefings to suddenly it being almost exclusively B-10s.

 

[Micawber]

^^^ As they were warmer, more flexible in the cold, generally more comfortable.

 

[Smithy]

^^^ As they were warmer, more flexible in the cold, generally more comfortable.

Exactly my point. Someone in combat is primarily concerned with kit that can allow him to perform his duties to the best of his ability and whilst offering the best degree of comfort, protection in allowing him to achieve that.

 

[KariJ]

Very true. Some mil spec stuff is well made, well designed and functional. I was talking about this in relation to the German Winterjacke parkas in another thread just the other day.

The thing is with the A-2 is that it isn't terribly well designed nor perfectly functional, yet we venerate it hugely (me included) but this is born from the associated connotations and nostalgia of those who wore it and all that conveys, Mustangs, B-17s, Jugs, etc, etc.

Military men usually aren't caught up in that same nostalgia, the perfect example being just how many swapped or stopped using their A-2s when the B-10 became available. As a lot of guys here know I have a big interest in the 4th FG and it is remarkable how in a ridiculously short space of time you see nearly everyone wearing A-2s at briefings to suddenly it being almost exclusively B-10s.

Who wants to bring "work" in ones home

 

[Smithy]

Who wants to bring "work" in ones home

That's why you can use lots of fun bits and pieces from the war when you're out and about in the woods and mountains ;-)

I've got a pair of 1937 British BD trousers which are great when we go on "hyttetur". I also have some original German WWII gaiters (Gamaschen) which I use with a pair of Norwegian army boots over spring and autumn - they've actually been one of the best discoveries I've made regarding WWII kit. I'd always wondered about their practicality, now I love the things when it's damp, marshy and rough terrain.

 

[KariJ]

Exactly my point. Someone in combat is primarily concerned with kit that can allow him to perform his duties to the best of his ability and whilst offering the best degree of comfort, protection in allowing him to achieve that.

Just like that The other thing is collecting and preserving the history. There that kind of issues like stiching labels rivets get more of a value than the planned function of military issued item itself. Nowadays when warfare even in field soldier level gets more and more "thecnical" and armies are just getting their gear where they cheapist can, so it leads In my opinion we seldom get anymore any "collecticable" pieces of uniforms. A2 in a way is a product of that world where it was designed bearing in mind of those open cockpits of WWI and also providing a piece of uniform for officers serving in peace time AAF. The need for jackets, need for pilots, need for airplanes was not planned before the facts of war just came in hands when war was and became in hands (war does not need friends).

In that way (I am only commenting from depot level) I really can not understand bigotry in terms real copy/more real copy, authentic copy/fake copy, coz those all repros are copies and probably better made than any authentic jackets.

For my friends and colleagues I have told that by our military archives my grandfatfer was 175 tall (very tall at the time) and he weight 42 kilos when he died 20.06.1944 defending our nation.

I could not even emagine that my 16 year old son today would fit in his parade uniform. So is it wrong or inaccurate to let a tailor made a jacket what he used in his best days of his career using the same pattern and accepting that we are not (luckily) the same size and structure anymore ? In my opinion that is wisdom in repro way, collecting museum stuff is an other story. Just my cents

 

[Smithy]

Apart from those Gamaschen, everything else I use is repro for the simple fact that I want to use it hard in the way it was intended. Doing and having done museum work, I have no urge to have original gear and kit (apart from some smaller bits and pieces/insignia, etc which I keep in the man cave). Repros more than have their place. When we go up to the cottage/cabin in the mountains, if there's snow you have to take a snow scooter, if there's none, there's a long hike through forest and marshland. Once there I have to use what I wear to shovel snow (over winter we can get 2 metres up there), lug firewood, do repairs, chop down some trees, go skiing, hiking, hunting, fishing. I'm not going to do that in original clobber!

 

[KariJ]

Apart from those Gamaschen, everything else I use is repro for the simple fact that I want to use it hard in the way it was intended. Doing and having done museum work, I have no urge to have original gear and kit (apart from some smaller bits and pieces/insignia, etc which I keep in the man cave). Repros more than have their place. When we go up to the cottage/cabin in the mountains, if there's snow you have to take a snow scooter, if there's none, there's a long hike through forest and marshland. Once there I have to use what I wear to shovel snow (over winter we can get 2 metres up there), lug firewood, do repairs, chop down some trees, go skiing, hiking, hunting, fishing. I'm not going to do that in original clobber!

Same here, but I still prefer in active use, even in work, that Norwegian Army "Ludwig/Telemark" rucksack in cotton, imprgnitated with wax. Just because it still is so functional

 

[Fredie]

I was checking with them for an expected ship date.
Ordered 16 Nov

So by the answers received here it looks like I will just need to wait which I'm okay with.

Thanks to everyone for the replies.

Got an answer today.

Thanks for your messages and sorry for the late reply as I was away.

Your jacket is expected to be completed in March 2020.


Best regards,
Platon

 

[Kennyz]

I see what you mean, Brian. Judging by how tight some of those A2's are around the shoulders I'll bet some of those men couldn't zip their jackets up all the way.

Ken

The scale he's using was surely formulated about the time of WW2. These would certainly fit most flyers then. But, as he says, there were exceptions. They didn't account for wider shoulders or wider upper backs, which is just as important as you know. Check out the link to GW site and look at the guys in the top row. That scale sure didn't account for them. Click on the picture to supersize it. Then scan the top row from right to left. It's clear that contract design limited comfort. Remember what JC says and we all know, that certain contracts don't fit some body types as shown in the top row of this pic. The guy handing out the A-2's sure didn't think about contract design... just the size. At least we have the knowledge to choose wisely when ordering a high end A-2 from a premium seller like Good Wear and others.
This is why Platon needs to include size 48.
http://www.goodwearleather.com/photos/vintage_photos/Victorville_1943_AClass.jpg

Brian

 

[A2 B3au]

How do I order one of these

 

[Pilot]

J. A. DUBOW MFG. CO.

and a lot of patience

 

[Lord Flashheart]

I ordered at the beginning of December and have asked when delivery is likely. Patience is a virtue

 

[Brettafett]

3 to 4 months is my guess.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

That's what I reckoned. the one you have for sale Bretta is just a tad long for me I suspect ... otherwise I'd be interested. Good to hear your feedback on it and your new RW though

 

[Brettafett]

Fed 2020 - Just keeps getting better

 

[achosid]

Got an email from Platon this morning: current lead time is 4-6 months on new orders.

 

[Brettafett]

Not surprised, mine took over 4 months. Well worth it though.