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Interesting detail about Hilts' A-2
- Thread starter Greg Gale
- Start date
Greg Gale
Well-Known Member
@Juanito : really? How so? I would have thought the opposite, so I'm interested in your opinion.
@Lebowski : thanks for the kind words and the reassurance, but contrary to what others tried to drag me into, this thread is not about my Star or the way it fits. I think we all agree that all kinds of tunneling/ no tunneling can be period correct, I wouldn't question that. I was just surprised that even a jacket with such generous lengths as SM's can ride up so much. That's why I'm so interested in Juanito's theory.
@Brettafett : I'll check it again. I recently started watching it but I found it terribly boring
@Lebowski : thanks for the kind words and the reassurance, but contrary to what others tried to drag me into, this thread is not about my Star or the way it fits. I think we all agree that all kinds of tunneling/ no tunneling can be period correct, I wouldn't question that. I was just surprised that even a jacket with such generous lengths as SM's can ride up so much. That's why I'm so interested in Juanito's theory.
@Brettafett : I'll check it again. I recently started watching it but I found it terribly boring
Greg, excuse me please if I misunderstood, but it seemed to me for a second that it was quite interconnected with your A-2) Have no idea why I thought so. Sorry again if I misunderstood.@Juanito : really? How so? I would have thought the opposite, so I'm interested in your opinion.
@Lebowski : thanks for the kind words and the reassurance, but contrary to what others tried to drag me into, this thread is not about my Star or the way it fits. I think we all agree that all kinds of tunneling/ no tunneling can be period correct, I wouldn't question that. I was just surprised that even a jacket with such generous lengths as SM's can ride up so much. That's why I'm so interested in Juanito's theory.
@Brettafett : I'll check it again. I recently started watching it but I found it terribly boring
Btw, I don't think Hilt's A-2 is quite generously sized on him. It doesn't look roomy nor snug though. To me Hilt's A-2 fitted him "spot-on".
Technonut2112
Well-Known Member
Technonut2112
Well-Known Member
The sleeve length looks spot on to me as well.. Especially with the arms relaxed..
B-Man2
Well-Known Member
As I read through all of the responses most of you guys have touched on the issue that mostly determined fit and sleeve length.....body types.
Here’s my thoughts;
Each different contract maker whether Bronco, Rough Wear or Star had a specific pattern that they made their jackets from. And those patterns varied from each other within the same size jacket. Nothing earth shaking there ...we all knew that . However, let’s say all of us were standing in line the day we were being issued our A2. And let’s just say for the hell of it, we’re all trim 21 year old, lean and mean airmen and ironically enough we all happen to be a size 44. However I’m 6’1 , 205 lbs with 34 inch arms and Techno is a tall lean kid at 6’4” and 185 lbs with 36 inch arm length and Greg is a stocky wide shoulder kid of 5’ 10, 200lbs with 33 inch arms. But hey ..... we all wear a size 44. and on that day the supply Sgt just opened a case of Rough Wear jackets. So the cut is a little different than a Bronco or Star. Rough Wears have an easy true to size standard fit. ( I know this is long but, hangin there with me). When we get issued our jackets who’s sleeves will be short, who’s will be spot on , and who’s sleeves are going to tunnel?
Now to complicate things a little, the supply Sgt runs out of Rough Wears with the guy in front of me and opens up a case of Stars issuing me a 44 Star. Different contract jacket , different fit . Same size 44. It’s really that simple.
Just look at photos of Jimmy Stewart during WW II wearing his Rough Wear 1401 P size 40 A2 jacket. He was 6’3 and lean as a pole. His jacket sleeves always ran up his long arms. The guy that got issued the next size 40, might have been 5’ 6 and his jacket had tunneling arms.
We beat this stuff to death, but it was as simple as , you get what they issue you. For one last, example, I’ve had several original size 46 jackets from different makers and the sleeves were always a little different length with each jacket.
That’s it for me. Have at it.
Here’s my thoughts;
Each different contract maker whether Bronco, Rough Wear or Star had a specific pattern that they made their jackets from. And those patterns varied from each other within the same size jacket. Nothing earth shaking there ...we all knew that . However, let’s say all of us were standing in line the day we were being issued our A2. And let’s just say for the hell of it, we’re all trim 21 year old, lean and mean airmen and ironically enough we all happen to be a size 44. However I’m 6’1 , 205 lbs with 34 inch arms and Techno is a tall lean kid at 6’4” and 185 lbs with 36 inch arm length and Greg is a stocky wide shoulder kid of 5’ 10, 200lbs with 33 inch arms. But hey ..... we all wear a size 44. and on that day the supply Sgt just opened a case of Rough Wear jackets. So the cut is a little different than a Bronco or Star. Rough Wears have an easy true to size standard fit. ( I know this is long but, hangin there with me). When we get issued our jackets who’s sleeves will be short, who’s will be spot on , and who’s sleeves are going to tunnel?
Now to complicate things a little, the supply Sgt runs out of Rough Wears with the guy in front of me and opens up a case of Stars issuing me a 44 Star. Different contract jacket , different fit . Same size 44. It’s really that simple.
Just look at photos of Jimmy Stewart during WW II wearing his Rough Wear 1401 P size 40 A2 jacket. He was 6’3 and lean as a pole. His jacket sleeves always ran up his long arms. The guy that got issued the next size 40, might have been 5’ 6 and his jacket had tunneling arms.
We beat this stuff to death, but it was as simple as , you get what they issue you. For one last, example, I’ve had several original size 46 jackets from different makers and the sleeves were always a little different length with each jacket.
That’s it for me. Have at it.
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Juanito
Well-Known Member
@Juanito : really? How so? I would have thought the opposite, so I'm interested in your opinion.
@Lebowski : thanks for the kind words and the reassurance, but contrary to what others tried to drag me into, this thread is not about my Star or the way it fits. I think we all agree that all kinds of tunneling/ no tunneling can be period correct, I wouldn't question that. I was just surprised that even a jacket with such generous lengths as SM's can ride up so much. That's why I'm so interested in Juanito's theory.
@Brettafett : I'll check it again. I recently started watching it but I found it terribly boring
I am not engineer, I am a banker, but I will do my best to explain...
Think of the arm as a lever with the shoulder as the pivot. When the seam of the sleeve sits squarely on the shoulder and the arm raises, the jacket doe not raise as there is no pull up in the shoulder area.
When the shoulder seam droops off the shoulder down the bicep/tricep, when the arm is raised, the seam (unless it slides back to the shoulder and typically doesn't due to the cotton lining not being slick) is now actually higher than if it were sitting on the shoulder at the pivot point because of its distance from the pivot point. The body of the jacket is consequently pulled up.
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Cocker
Well-Known Member
@Brettafett : I'll check it again. I recently started watching it but I found it terribly boring
Now where's that ignore button, again??
Kennyz
Well-Known Member
Always of interest to see a Hilts A-2 thread, Greg! One of the coolest jackets around, for many of us here I think.
Ken
Ken
Nothing new in here, really. I've just been looking at photos of McQueen in The GreatEscape, and I discovered something - something that's not new to anyone, but I thought it would be interesting to point out and share with you. It's not meant to start any discussion about "proper fit", we all know it varied massively, don't we? It's more about pointing out a "feature" of our beloved A-2s that many tend to ignore, or regard as a defect - including me from time to time. Let this be a sobering reminder of what A-2s are really like
So McQueen is wearing a RW (27752? 16159?), quite a generously sized one, definitely not on the trim side, sleeves tunneling and all (Even if wearing the jacket unzipped relaxes the shoulders and makes the sleeves a tad longer)
But let's see what happens to the sleeves when he folds his arms, or raises them:
Sitting down only exacerbates the phenomenon:
and now, look what happens when he wants to pick up his baseball:
Also, when he raises his arms, the jacket raises with them!
I thought it would be nice to have these pictures in one thread, sorry if I wasted anyone's time
A2 B3au
Well-Known Member
Could they not have had a couple of A2s they used like they often do on moviesNothing new in here, really. I've just been looking at photos of McQueen in The GreatEscape, and I discovered something - something that's not new to anyone, but I thought it would be interesting to point out and share with you. It's not meant to start any discussion about "proper fit", we all know it varied massively, don't we? It's more about pointing out a "feature" of our beloved A-2s that many tend to ignore, or regard as a defect - including me from time to time. Let this be a sobering reminder of what A-2s are really like
So McQueen is wearing a RW (27752? 16159?), quite a generously sized one, definitely not on the trim side, sleeves tunneling and all (Even if wearing the jacket unzipped relaxes the shoulders and makes the sleeves a tad longer)
But let's see what happens to the sleeves when he folds his arms, or raises them:
Sitting down only exacerbates the phenomenon:
and now, look what happens when he wants to pick up his baseball:
Also, when he raises his arms, the jacket raises with them!
I thought it would be nice to have these pictures in one thread, sorry if I wasted anyone's time
A2 B3au
Well-Known Member
Surely not creases I can see
Silver Surfer
Well-Known Member
creases jhrist, it just never ends.
Officer Dibley
Well-Known Member
Thanks for making me smile Techno. You have spent a lot of time on this forum defending your views on how a jacket should fit, what jacket is best ( in you opinion) ... and other things.
As for not asking for opinions, i think when you express an opinion or view yourself, you are inviting others to comment and have to accept hearing some you don't like.
And let's be honest, for a guy who doesn't invite opinions, you sure as shit give yours and very often
One might even say you could start a fight in an empty room
And i accept that an encourage that. People like you stimulate debate and provide endless entertainment
B-Man2
Well-Known Member
hi all
not to set up a new topic ; i have question
i found a pics crew airmen ww2
bottom row, second from the right airmen , someone knows this jacket !? ... A strange model
That looks like a vintange Monarch half belt which was posted in another thread by Maverickson .
Silver Surfer
Well-Known Member
yup, civy hb. not a whole lot to go with the pic, though. a fair amount of aaf guys wore civy jacs, especially in the pto-cbi.
