Input on Irvin RAF Jacket Wanted

[SERE]

Hello all,

Been on the hunt for a new winter weight jacket and have settled on the idea of purchasing an Irvin. I've been diligently scouring the web in search of the jacket that will work for me and am now turning to the gents on this forum in an effort to garner some intel and wisdom into the various available jackets of this style out there. I have searched this forum and found much valuable info thus far and hope that this post may add to what I have learned thus far. From what I have read, there are three companies that have stood out as having top quality Irvin Flying Jackets, these being Eastman (ELC), Aero Leather, and Aviation Leathercraft. The only issue with these Jackets is the price tag. I understand the old adage that you get what you pay for, but the price on these jackets is simply a bit to high for what I am willing to pay for a winter jacket. Here are some of the other Irvins I have found that have come in a various prices:

Simmons Bilt
British Sheepskin
Brands Lock
Cirrus
What Price Glory
Flight Jacket.com

I'd love to hear any input from those who have experience with any of these other companies (specifically their Irvin RAF Jacket)

I have noticed when reading the forums here that many have various reasons and concerns when it comes to what there looking for in one of these jackets. I think it would be helpful to know that I am not overly concerned with era authenticity and much more concerned with durability, cold weather serviceability, ease of wear (meaning comfort and mobility), and longevity. The jacket will be used approximately 6 months out of every year and should see temps on average ranging from about 5 degrees Fahrenheit to the low 40's. I intend on wearing this jacket as a daily wear during the winter months and some of the fall.

I thank all those in advance that took the time to read through this and render some much desired advise and/or direction in this endeavor.

Cheers!

SERE

 

[Smithy]

If authenticity isn't your main priority then your options open up a lot.

ELC are very accurate but ridiculously expensive now, verging on joke territory expensive. I have one and love it but bought it when you didn't have to mortgage the house to buy one.

Aero changed their patterns a few years back and they are more accurate than what they were. If I were buying a new one I'd probably go Aero now.

Aviation Leathercraft are well made but the sheepskin on their standard jacket is just too thick and too much, you'll look and feel like the Michelin Man in one, you'll probably also overheat and blow a gasket just standing around in one. They do a Lightweight one which has a much better weight fleece. Both are not particularly accurate but very well made. The very early Aviation Leathercraft ones are actually far more accurate and good looking jackets if you can find one.

WPG cheap Irvin specifically developed for the reenactor market. Looks good but I've heard the details (seam tapes, zips, etc) are a bit budget. No idea what the construction quality is like but I'm sure someone will chime in.

Cirrus are no more. They did make an Irvin which was comparable in accuracy to the modern Aviation Leathercraft ones so not very period accurate. They were very well made though.

I'm sure others will be able to add to this but at least it'll get you started.

Cheers,

Tim

 

[Otter]

I owned an Aviation Leathercraft one for years, the fleece does matt down and go curly after a while. Good quality but not really accurate.
I also owned an Aero, pre update so slightly more tubular arms than authentic and quite long fleece. Better quality jacket and beautifully made. Sold it on as the sleeve was about 2 inches too long.
Caveat with these jackets, they are very warm, I could never wear mine in more than about 3 Celsius with only a t shirt underneath, and they soak up rain like a sponge which limits you in the Scottish climate.
Now I wear a nice early Aero D1, and layer it with an RAF sweater if I need the warmth.

 

[Falcon_52]

I have an Eastman from many years back - when the prices were a bit more reasonable. It's a great jacket and very authentic.

I did buy a WPG Irvin 2 years ago just as an experiment and to have an Irvin that I could throw on and not care if I got gasoline, oil, grease, dirt, etc. all over it. I didn't want to lose any sleep over it. To be honest, the WPG isn't that bad. I actually really like the fleece on the sheepskin and it is chrome-tanned so it is very pliable right out of the box. The downsides are that the stitching is a bit off in some places and the belt buckle is not historically accurate. Otherwise it is pretty good for the price.

I have never handled an Aero version but those look quite nice also.

Noel

 

[MikeyB-17]

I'm with Smithy, ELC are charging silly money and aren't far enough ahead of the competition to justify it, nice though they are. If I was in the market for an Irvin, I'd be beating a path to Aero's door. Or keep your eye out for a decent used jacket, Ebay being the obvious route.

 

[Pilot]

Agree with all.
Had them almost all incl. a hand picked in Dubai WPG... (WPG # except the fleece..."Crap-ola!" stiches opened, during a winter walk with the dogs.., some plastic tapes/trims, zips and buckle like Mall ware...etc)
Sold my Aero´s and ELC´s here.
If I would be in this Repro Business again...N# 1 is Aero N#2 is ELC. (Quality of make, service, reselling value , authenticity etc... )...
You are right..."you only get what you pay for...I am too poor to buy cheap "
If money is an issue, try the second hand market and or last but not least a Mall jacket...some may not be that bad for 600 Euro.

 

[B-Man2]

The advise given by each of the gentleman above is spot on, so I won’t repeat their suggestions. I will say that period accuracy not being an issue ( I mean what’s the sense of buying an Eastman only to order it with side hand warmer pockets ) then I would consider an Aviation Leathercraft in addition to a used Aero or ELC. The prices on a used jacket will be about half of that of a new one and you can find yourself a almost new jacket if you shop around a bit. Now here’s my point , why would you find a used Irvin with little wear on the market??? It’s because they are very warm coats that you will sweat your ass off in once you come in from the cold. If you’re going to be working outside or spend long periods of time outside no problem, but if you’re walking from one building to the next or wearing it on your next pub crawl, it eventually gets to be too much. One more thing if your traveling by plane a lot, its a pain to carry that thing through an airport or stash it in the over head it’s just too bulky. And to wear it while walking through an airport, you’re sure to have a friggin heat stroke.
That’s all I’ve got .., good luck with your search.

By the way I forgot to mention that I’ve owned many of the Irvin jackets you have listed. So it was pretty much the same issue with all of them.

 

[SERE]

If authenticity isn't your main priority then your options open up a lot.

ELC are very accurate but ridiculously expensive now, verging on joke territory expensive. I have one and love it but bought it when you didn't have to mortgage the house to buy one.

Aero changed their patterns a few years back and they are more accurate than what they were. If I were buying a new one I'd probably go Aero now.

Aviation Leathercraft are well made but the sheepskin on their standard jacket is just too thick and too much, you'll look and feel like the Michelin Man in one, you'll probably also overheat and blow a gasket just standing around in one. They do a Lightweight one which has a much better weight fleece. Both are not particularly accurate but very well made. The very early Aviation Leathercraft ones are actually far more accurate and good looking jackets if you can find one.

WPG cheap Irvin specifically developed for the reenactor market. Looks good but I've heard the details (seam tapes, zips, etc) are a bit budget. No idea what the construction quality is like but I'm sure someone will chime in.

Cirrus are no more. They did make an Irvin which was comparable in accuracy to the modern Aviation Leathercraft ones so not very period accurate. They were very well made though.

I'm sure others will be able to add to this but at least it'll get you started.

Cheers,

Tim

Yeah, I was unable to find a website for Cirrus. I had come across a couple posted on ebay, unfortunately not in my size. Good to know to take a look at them. Thanks Tim!

 

[SERE]

I owned an Aviation Leathercraft one for years, the fleece does matt down and go curly after a while. Good quality but not really accurate.
I also owned an Aero, pre update so slightly more tubular arms than authentic and quite long fleece. Better quality jacket and beautifully made. Sold it on as the sleeve was about 2 inches too long.
Caveat with these jackets, they are very warm, I could never wear mine in more than about 3 Celsius with only a t shirt underneath, and they soak up rain like a sponge which limits you in the Scottish climate.
Now I wear a nice early Aero D1, and layer it with an RAF sweater if I need the warmth.

I've noticed a recurring theme of how warm these jackets are, I don't foresee it as to much of an issue for me as I am typically out in the streets working. Do Irvins have a standard shearling depth? I did notice that a couple companies offered a lighter option on their jackets.

 

[SERE]

The advise given by each of the gentleman above is spot on, so I won’t repeat their suggestions. I will say that period accuracy not being an issue ( I mean what’s the sense of buying an Eastman only to order it with side hand warmer pockets ) then I would consider an Aviation Leathercraft in addition to a used Aero or ELC. The prices on a used jacket will be about half of that of a new one and you can find yourself a almost new jacket if you shop around a bit. Now here’s my point , why would you find a used Irvin with little wear on the market??? It’s because they are very warm coats that you will sweat your ass off in once you come in from the cold. If you’re going to be working outside or spend long periods of time outside no problem, but if your walking from one building to the next or wearing it on your next pub crawl, it eventually gets to be too much. One more thing if your traveling by plane a lot, its a pain to carry that thing through an airport or stash it in the over head it’s just too bulky. And to wear it while walking through an airport, your sure to have a friggin heat stroke.
That’s all I’ve got .., good luck with your search.

By the way I forgot to mention that I’ve owned many of the Irvin jackets you have listed. So it was pretty much the same issue with all of them.

Much appreciated. I've combed the classifieds on this forum and have continually scoured Ebay several times with no luck so far in regards to my size (44") for those companies, but I will continue looking.

 

[B-Man2]

Much appreciated. I've combed the classifieds on this forum and have continually scoured Ebay several times with no luck so far in regards to my size (44") for those companies, but I will continue looking.

You will probably have more luck once the weather begins to change and it starts to get cooler. Most people who have Irvin’s and B-3s for sale know that it’s difficult trying to sell them during the summer months.
You might also put a “Want to Buy” (WTB)thread in the Buy and Sell section of this forum and also another forum known as the Fedora Lounge Forum. If someone is thinking about selling one in a size 44 and sees your listing it may prompt them to contact you.
There, now you know about as much as most of us on this topic

 

[CBI]

TBH..............WPG hands down, a wonderful inexpensive jacket, mine was quite nice, looks extremely authentic 5 feet away and perhaps most importantly, it felt like the most accurate when wearing compared to my original Irvin.........even more than my former ELC and Aero! WPG is not perfect but its close enough IMO and great fun. Besides, good chance that in this day and age you will end up not wearing an Irvin that much They don't make much ergonomic sense compared to fleece and for winter wear, you may end up wanting something that covers your behind. Very awesome looking jackets for sure. Get the WPG, expect it to not been perfect and after a few years if you want to upgrade you can. Enjoy, whatever you decide.

 

[Micawber]

Echo the above with one proviso: You say you will be out on the streets "working". Now if that means physical work then you are likely to overheat in a full weight Irvin. They are ok for sitting and "working" in an unheated aircraft way up in the upper reaches of the atmosphere but a jacket to wear while doing manual tasks down on the deck, even in winter they become slightly less than practical.

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

Simmons Bilt
British Sheepskin
Brands Lock
Cirrus
What Price Glory
Flight Jacket.com


SERE

None of the above.
Get a used ELC or Aero off ebay/etsy etc
A used jacket is just how your "new" one will be in 12 months but an ELC or an Aero will hold their value/resale price. Those above will drop in resale value faster than a modern Range Rover
One forgets the price in no time at all but one never gets the opportunity to forget the flaws

 

[Pilot]

None of the above.
Get a used ELC or Aero off ebay/etsy etc
A used jacket is just how your "new" one will be in 12 months but an ELC or an Aero will hold their value/resale price. Those above will drop in resale value faster than a modern Range Rover
One forgets the price in no time at all but one never gets the opportunity to forget the flaws

Echo that 100%

 

[SERE]

Echo the above with one proviso: You say you will be out on the streets "working". Now if that means physical work then you are likely to overheat in a full weight Irvin. They are ok for sitting and "working" in an unheated aircraft way up in the upper reaches of the atmosphere but a jacket to wear while doing manual tasks down on the deck, even in winter they become slightly less than practical.

I suppose I should have been a little more clear on what I meant by outside working. I'm a professional investigator and spend lots of time out in the streets conducting interviews and surveillance and such...so manual labor that would cause overheating?...not really, or at least not often. I was a former USAF SERE specialist and from that learned to love wool, for the last several years I have been wearing a heavy Peacoat. That coat has now worn to thin to be serviceable for much of the winter temps.

 

[B-Man2]

I suppose I should have been a little more clear on what I meant by outside working. I'm a professional investigator and spend lots of time out in the streets conducting interviews and surveillance and such...so manual labor that would cause overheating?...not really, or at least not often. I was a former USAF SERE specialist and from that learned to love wool, for the last several years I have been wearing a heavy Peacoat. That coat has now worn to thin to be serviceable for much of the winter temps.

Sere
Without an explanation let me say this jacket would not be good for what you do. It would in fact single you out, and make you more noticeable when you’re working out on the streets or on surveillance . Trust me... this is not a jacket that is good for your work. It shouts out look at me. Definitely not good for surveillance . Not good for moving quickly or getting to your equipment that you may be carrying or trying to conceal on your belt. (Read between the lines here). If you wear it you will soon discard it once you realize that what I’m explaining is rock solid intell.

 

[SERE]

Sere
Without an explanation let me say this jacket would not be good for what you do. It would in fact single you out, and make you more noticeable when you’re working out on the streets or on surveillance . Trust me... this is not a jacket that is good for your work. It shouts out look at me. Definitely not good for surveillance . Not good for moving quickly or getting to your equipment that you may be carrying or trying to conceal on your belt. (Read between the lines here). If you wear it you will soon discard it once you realize that what I’m explaining is rock solid intell.

I would certainly agree that this type of jacket defies the "grey man" mentality of surveillance as it would attract attention; however after doing this type of work for over 10 years I can tell you that nothing is worse than freezing your biscuits off sitting in a metal vehicle watching paint dry for hours and you can't start the engine to get that heat going. The point about the bulkiness however does make a lot of sense, it was a concern from the beginning. What was interesting is that after viewing a countless number of photos of people wearing these jackets, several appeared to fit very casual while others did appear to give that Michelin Man look. Perhaps I should expand my search into some lighter wool lined jackets?, but that Irvin style is just so appealing!

 

[Smithy]

Burt makes a very good point if you are involved in surveillance work. These jackets are very noticeable, not least of all because for the most part, the age when they were worn is 80 years ago. Unless you are at an open top classic car meet in the UK during the cooler months, you will be very apparent.

For surveillance work I would have imagined that wearing something that would blend in with the population of the area you are working in and also a dark colour so it's less visible at night. Depending on the temps, perhaps a dark woollen overcoat or peacoat, or a modern material parka?

 

[B-Man2]

I would certainly agree that this type of jacket defies the "grey man" mentality of surveillance as it would attract attention; however after doing this type of work for over 10 years I can tell you that nothing is worse than freezing your biscuits off sitting in a metal vehicle watching paint dry for hours and you can't start the engine to get that heat going. The point about the bulkiness however does make a lot of sense, it was a concern from the beginning. What was interesting is that after viewing a countless number of photos of people wearing these jackets, several appeared to fit very casual while others did appear to give that Michelin Man look. Perhaps I should expand my search into some lighter wool lined jackets?, but that Irvin style is just so appealing!

Sere
Without trying to sound like I’m being a know it all and again without going into a explanation, let me know how you feel about freezing you biscuits off after you’ve done it for 41 years. Talking about surveillance ; you’ll be the only person wearing a jacket like that within 5 miles of your surveillance area. Your target will see you once and immediately notice you. The second time he sees you ‘ you’ll be burned. The jacket fits around your belt line, bend over and all your shit is hanging out for everyone to see. Honestly Sere I respect your opinion and I’m just trying to share some insight.
Cheers Buddy