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How come USN gear attracts less people than AAF stuff?

bazelot

Well-Known Member
I've noticed that USN flight gear seem to attract less people than its Army counterpart. A rotten beat up, completely unsalvagable A-2 is going to fetch $500 but a salvageable M422A will sell for $15 for example. The list is endless. Any idea why?
 

zoomer

Well-Known Member
My guess is not enough movies about Navy flying in WW2, so not enough mythology.

The AAF also had faster fighters, heavier bombers, sloppier uniforms, cooler heraldry (and allowed it on the planes), did massive high-altitude raids in the enemy's backyard, and in general cultivated the image of the younger, swaggeringer, more individualistic air warrior.
 

Chandler

Well-Known Member
There have been plenty of Naval Aviation movies, but maybe it's just that the Navy was in such temperate climes
in the war so they never wore their leather FJs to become as popular.

Look at what Top Gun did for the pseudo flight jacket market, back when.

Me, I have an original AN-J and G-1 that I love.

Chandler
 

taikonaut

Active Member
I remember back in 1990-91 during the aftermath of the film "Memphis Belle" everyone, men and women had a replica B3 jacket. I managed to get myself a Cooper A2 from a magaizine mail order and they were the better earlier examples. I still remember queuing up at a shop, everyone about a dozen or so wore B3 started staring with fascination of my Cooper A2 probably remembering the jacket as an officer grade worn by the captain in the film. For a moment I did felt like I was in command of the queu :)
Obviosly for most people it is just a fad but for myself this fashion stayed longer.
Sorry for being a bit off topic.
 

TankBuster

Active Member
I'll take a guess that it was a combination of the more popular planes, and the IMO better looks of the A-2 jacket. Plus the squadron patches and jacket paintings are much more desirable. I do like Navy jackets, but it's pretty tough to beat the A-2 jacket.
 
I'd say that all of the things mentioned above play a part, and I'll add two more possibilities. Romance, especially with films focused so much on the 8th. AAF in England. Not so many chickas on aircraft carriers so that tends to be less a feature of Navy films. Furry collars! They may seem a bit, well, Baroque, to many people. Also from a practical standpoint those collars tend to limit the seasonality for Navy jackets.

I love the Navy stuff myself, when I order an A-2 soon it will be the first specifically non-Navy jacket I've ever had. I consider the A-1 to be a case of either/or.

Another thing M-421 jackets both original and repro fetch higher prices than the leather jackets. Rarity? No mouton collar? Both?
 

Chandler

Well-Known Member
tamoko said:
...you have possibility to get jacket better then A-2...

In your opinion.

My own opinion puts the 2 on the same level, just different in style. Sort of like asking what's better, Sierra Nevada Pale Ale or Goose Island Honkers Ale -- I'll take both, please.

Chandler
 

tamoko

Member
zoomer said:
My guess is not enough movies about Navy flying in WW2, so not enough mythology.

The AAF also had faster fighters, heavier bombers, sloppier uniforms, cooler heraldry (and allowed it on the planes), did massive high-altitude raids in the enemy's backyard, and in general cultivated the image of the younger, swaggeringer, more individualistic air warrior.
hmmm.
Pappy Boyington, AVG, Jolly Roger, and four from first seven astronaut NAVY !
First American in the space and first on the moon, NAVY ;)

But you can not wear mouton collar on summer, an i think this is big problem for USN jackets.
A-2 you can wear every time. USN jackets much more comfortable then A-2 for my taste.
An-J-3 is the best.
PS: one MINTY USN jacket can be pretty expensive, no way for $15 but no one trash A-2 sold for $15.
 

zoomer

Well-Known Member
The M-421 is one helluva jacket, but has little popular profile - it was usually worn over same-color flightsuits or khakis and under a lifevest and chute harness, so it's hard to see in pictures. And it's been reproed only in extremely limited numbers. The reenactor houses, who do M1941s, tankers and the like, could do it very reasonably, but they don't like Navy gear any more than anyone else does. (They have a hard enough time selling Army gear not used by the Airborne.)

The '421 also loses cool points by not being leather, and not being at all adjustable - no button latches or tabs like the M1941. I've often thought an unlined capeskin version, with tabs added, would be neat - sort of an anti-Indy.
 

tamoko

Member
zoomer said:
The M-421 is one helluva jacket, but has little popular profile - it was usually worn over same-color flightsuits or khakis and under a lifevest and chute harness, so it's hard to see in pictures. And it's been reproed only in extremely limited numbers. The reenactor houses, who do M1941s, tankers and the like, could do it very reasonably, but they don't like Navy gear any more than anyone else does. (They have a hard enough time selling Army gear not used by the Airborne.)

The '421 also loses cool points by not being leather, and not being at all adjustable - no button latches or tabs like the M1941. I've often thought an unlined capeskin version, with tabs added, would be neat - sort of an anti-Indy.

Really good idea ! M-421 in goatskin . I would like to get one Doniger M-421 in goat. ;)
 

Peter Graham

Well-Known Member
Tom, you posed a very good question and one I've been pondering myself. Most of the answers have been covered but here's my 2 cents. AAF gear has captured peoples imagination so much because of the the aircraft, B-17, P-47 etc, etc and the painted and patched jackets. There are also so many more photos available and books written about the AAF than the Navy. I don't think it's the jackets themselves that are much of a factor. If the AAF had worn painted M-422A's and the Navy A-2's then the situation would be reversed. Of course the A-2 has it in the coolness stakes and furry collars do have a bearing although a nice B-10 or B-15 will fetch big bucks. There are many factors involved and I can't see the situation changing. The irony is of course, and I think most people will agree, that an M-422A is a far superior jacket than an A-2.
 

rikitiki

Member
The problem with Navy jackets, expecially comparing the G-1 to A-2, are their fur collars. As one fashion expert wrote, "Only women wear fur collars."
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Chicks dig sailors, fur mouton kicks ass! (I love G-1 and A-2. both classic flight jackets that all others are based on IMHO).
 
wing nut said:
Chicks dig sailors, fur mouton kicks ass! (I love G-1 and A-2. both classic flight jackets that all others are based on IMHO).
I agree!

53970492_B8y8K-M.jpg
 

fl1946

Member
You probably have never been to a Tailhook convention (until we got banned down in San Diego) or the O club before the squadron CO banned G-1's from the club. If you have, you know how rowdy Navy and Marine AVIATORS can get...and the honeys go WILD. I almost lost my G-1 to a pretty thing in one incident.

And if you go to Pensacola, G-1's are still worshipped albeit it's more popular with rotor heads than fixed wing fliers.

Semper Fi!

"Pasha"
 

mazeta

Member
bazelot said:
I've noticed that USN flight gear seem to attract less people than its Army counterpart. A rotten beat up, completely unsalvagable A-2 is going to fetch $500 but a salvageable M422A will sell for $15 for example. The list is endless. Any idea why?
Fur collars.
 

Jaydee

New Member
I agree it is probably the Mouton Collar, but I like the Jacket. The M422As seem to be more rare than the A2s. Maybe it just seems that way because they changed the 422 to the ANJ and then G-1. I wonder how the production numbers compaired between WWII A2s and WWII M422As?
 

ausreenactor

Well-Known Member
Everyone knows being in the Army(any Army) is better than being in the Navy. Ergo, Army kit is better/cooler/tougher than Navy kit, and worth more!! Not one to make bold statements usually....but took a vote of everyone here and we all said Army is "way" cooler!!

CPL Trevor Couch
 
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